According to a Daily Racing Form report last week, the takeout rate on the popular and successful Players Pick 5 could rise sharply at the Betfair Hollywood Park April 25 unless the track and the Thoroughbred Owners of California can reach an agreement on revenue distribution.
Jack Liebau, the fan-friendly Hollywood Park president indicated that without such an agreement, the promotional 14 percent takeout rate could rise to the standard exotic takeout scale of 23.65, a tax increase of 59.19 percent.
While Liebau did not break down figures specifically, he stated a majority of the 14 percent goes toward purses and that the track receives a nominal share. He was quoted to say that he is “hoping there will be a fairer arrangement in respect to the spread.”
Lou Raffetto, president of the Thoroughbred Owners of California, told DRF in the same story that he’s “confident we will work it out… based on our discussions we’ll come to some sort of agreement.”
Of course, it’s expected and acceptable that the two sides in a negotiation should play their cards out of public view, but two things would seem apparent just looking at those numbers.
At 14 percent, the track very likely is being under-compensated at best if it’s indeed the case that the major share of the split is going to purses. Even as a horseplayer with a vested interest in takeout, I admit there’s not much wiggle room at that rate.
Raffetto’s statement seems an admission that there probably is some inequity because of the special rate and, of course, the slice of the pie cut by the state of California exacerbates this revenue issue because it further reduces the amount that goes to the track and horsemen.
Everyone with an interest in Thoroughbred racing understands the problem and is trying to be fair-minded. But when looking at past performances, certain patterns emerge.
First, low takeout promotional wagers, from Tampa to Los Angeles, are an unqualified success when handle is the measure. Churn notwithstanding, low takeout bets are among handle leaders wherever they’re offered, a tribute to their popularity.
Of greater significance might be that because of the wager’s complexity and higher-cost nature, the amount of work that bettors put into handicapping the wager has resulted in increased handle on individual races within a given sequence; and a trickling more into sequential sub-sets--Pick 5 into Pick 4 into Pick 3, etc.
Low-cost wagers that allow handicappers to win a lot for a little if they consistently outwork their parimutuel opponents are the greatest gift ever given horseplayers. Horseplayers, also known as customers.
Without customers, of course, all those fancy pedigrees, the horse sales, well-heeled owners and bloodstock commissions--the good living made by even the most middling of practitioners--would fail to exist.
All industry factions know this and all factions either pay homage or lip service to the plight of these customers. Now to delve a little further into the PPs.
As everyone has known for some time, Hollywood Park is thisclose to closing its gates forever. And anyone who has paid attention has come to learn that Mr. Liebau seems to understand the economics and politics of takeout and the dire consequences when takeout rates are abused. But already on the brink, his track needs more revenue.
There are two places from which this revenue can flow; one is from the purse account, the second is from the customer’s pocket. The fairest answer probably is--as much as it pains this horseplayer to say so—that it will need to come from both. Everyone takes a haircut.
This sounds great except for this: Of all the groups; from powerless customers to successful but hurting tracks to owners whose pockets only run so deep to horse trainers with a finite amount of sweat equity left to give in their 365/24/7 lives, it is horsemen whose sense of entitlement will bring this whole thing down.
A look at the PPs of the TOC and its horsemen indicates that for some, purses and commissions can never be high enough. Prove to them and colleagues everywhere that, when adjusted for inflation, national handle is half of what it was less than a decade ago, they won’t care, their sense of entitlement beyond all reason.
Build it and the suckers will come worked 50 years ago. But the suckers have been bled dry and the numbers of those that have stopped coming are growing by the day. And the cure for this is what, higher taxes?
To increase takeout almost 60 percent on a wager that in a measurable way has helped stem the tide of decline inevitably will prove to be the end of California racing as the sport’s history has known it. A takeout increase at this point in time is not just bad business; it’s gluttonous insanity.
For grassroots horseplayers, this will not stand. Keep giving horseplayers the economic equivalent of a raised middle finger and reap the ill wind of boycott.
And who knows, maybe this will be the final straw for remaining players to join their brethren who’ve already moved on for the action available in a casino, sports book or card room, where the rake is much, much lower.
So, tell us, are you feeling lucky?


26 Feb 2013 at 10:07 pm | #
I would like to see an actual report on how takeout affects wagering. I usually don’t bet the Pick-5 even with its low takeout but I do bet the early and late pick 4 with its higher takeout. I really don’t think a low takeout equates to more gambling.
27 Feb 2013 at 02:23 am | #
Ah, takeout, that mechanism responsible for the decline of Thoroughbred racing; the cause of horseplayers going ‘belly-up’.
In the following two scenarios, which horseplayer will do better financially over time? a) a bettor who wagers on the pick three with a takeout rate of 26%, or b) a bettor who wagers on the popular and successful (quoting Mr. Pricci) Player’s Pick Five?
As to the possible increase in the takeout of the Player’s Pick Five, from 14% to 23.65%, if the wager paid $563 with the current takeout, it would pay $500 with the increased takeout; if it paid $1,126, it would now pay $1,000. Before takeout becomes a factor, though, you horseplayers must ‘hit’ it. Now, how many of you bettors have cashed on the pick five in a given year?
You think, maybe, that the real decline in Thoroughbred racing is that few bettors are winning? That the trend by racetrack management to push exotic wagering, while treating simple win wagering and double wagering as outdated is the real cause? Or, is the real cause for racing’s decline the fact that there are not enough stake races with six figure purses and five horse fields for horseplayers to fawn over.
I know that takeout is not responsible for the current plight of Thoroughbred racing; how can it be? Just how does takeout interfere with one’s ability to pick winners? Seems to me that takeout would be far removed in a bettor’s mind if he were cashing tickets daily.
27 Feb 2013 at 08:41 am | #
The decline in wagering can be traced to the influx of additional gambling opportunities that weren’t available 40 years ago. Lotteries and slot machines have taken the casual players’ dollars and poker is now the choice of the more sophisticated bettor. The die hards like us have to fight against computer programs that don’t pick winners but exploit inequities in the betting pools. And from someone who has seen the numbers, these people win more often then they lose.
If I pick a winner that pays $10 instead $9 because of lower takeout and breakage, that means I can bet more on my next selection. Multiply that by thousands and you can see how the handle would go up. If you didn’t have the winner, someone else did, and they would bet more.
Churn, Baby Churn!
27 Feb 2013 at 09:17 am | #
“For grassroots horseplayers, this will not stand. Keep giving horseplayers the economic equivalent of a raised middle finger and reap the ill wind of boycott.”
Little late for that isn’t it? The P5 pretty much defeated the effects of the so-called boycott over the last rate raise. You remember that one don’t you, it was the one you didn’t participate in. In fact you cheered this bet on. Perhaps it is the player that is reaping what he sowed.
27 Feb 2013 at 09:19 am | #
I sure would like to meet the person(s) who use a computer program ‘that doesn’t pick winners, but exploits inequities in the betting pools’; they certainly wager more, but I am not convinced that they do not lose more also.
Churn and handle are beneficial to the racetrack, and off-track wagering facilities; how churn and handle affects my ability to handicap the platers leaves me scratching.
27 Feb 2013 at 09:23 am | #
Welcome to the Hotel Cali-CORROW!
“As to the possible increase in the takeout of the Player’s Pick Five, from 14% to 23.65%, if the wager paid $563 with the current takeout, it would pay $500 with the increased takeout; if it paid $1,126, it would now pay $1,000.”
A mere bag of shells Norton!
“I know that takeout is not responsible for the current plight of Thoroughbred racing; how can it be? Just how does takeout interfere with one’s ability to pick winners?”
Bang zoom, to the moon! I had all the winners, so where did my bankroll go Alice?
“Or, is the real cause for racing’s decline the fact that there are not enough stake races with six figure purses and five horse fields for horseplayers to fawn over.”
Oh you’re a riot Alice, a regular riot. Thank you for making my day! The beat goes on and on…
Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place
Such a lovely face
They’re living it up at the Hotel California
What a nice surprise
Bring your alibis
Mirrors on the ceiling
The pink champagne on ice
And she said, “We are all just prisoners here
Of our own device”
And in the master’s chambers
They gathered for the feast
The stab it with their steely knives
But they just can’t kill the beast
Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
“Relax,” said the night man
“We are programmed to receive
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave!”
27 Feb 2013 at 09:47 am | #
Take out doesn’t affect the ability to pick winners, but with a higher commission and no money in the pools from people betting on names and colors or whatever, the price your getting is that much lower! So when a person gets back more money for a winning wager, aren’t they going to be able to stay in the game longer?
When I was a peon working in a mutuel department, I saw the numbers daily and the offshore adw sites won much more then they lost. And some we didn’t even let bet on us!
One track even let someone link his computer directly into the tote system!
27 Feb 2013 at 10:19 am | #
Whether the takeout rate is 5% or 50%, over time the same small number of successful bettors would be left standing; these bettors, I believe, work very hard at their selections using race replays as their most effective tool.
A reduction in takeout will allow a patron to ‘stay in the game longer’. Wow! Like a stay of execution.
-------
Years ago I and two close friends would go to Las Vegas on junkets. One of the guys upon settling at the hotel would head for the crap table and bet $1000 on pass - his only gambling venture for the entire few days - win or lose. He, obviously, wasn’t interested in delaying the inevitable.
27 Feb 2013 at 10:30 am | #
your absolutely right, raise the take out to 75% and put us all out of our misery, instead of a death by a thousand cuts.
Who are the sharp handicappers going to bet against?
27 Feb 2013 at 11:20 am | #
Why no column on the Rainbow Six, which is supposed to be such a great thing for the small bettor?
Maybe because the lone winner of 3.5 million bet over $3,000 on his winning ticket?
Must be nice to have so much money to bet every day!
27 Feb 2013 at 11:29 am | #
CORROW-fornia Dreamin! It’s like Clint Eastwood and the empty chair! How did that turn out? Go ahead, make our day!
“Whether the takeout rate is 5% or 50%, over time the same small number of successful bettors would be left standing; these bettors, I believe, work very hard at their selections using race replays as their most effective tool.”
With sharks this good, why would any newbie enter the water?
“A reduction in takeout will allow a patron to ‘stay in the game longer’. Wow! Like a stay of execution.”
Holy CORROW! Sounds like alot of horseplayers are on death row!
How much longer can the beat go on?
All the leaves are brown and the sky is grey
I’ve been for a walk on a winters day
I’d be safe and warm if I was in L.A.
California dreamin’, on such a winters day.
Stepped into a church I passed along the way
Well, I get down on my knees and I pretend to pray.
You know the preacher likes the cold
He knows I’m gonna stay.
California, California dreamin’, on such a winters day.
All the leaves are brown and the sky is grey
I’ve been for a walk on a winters day
If I didn’t tell her I could leave today
California, California dreamin’, on such a winters day.
All the leaves are brown ...
27 Feb 2013 at 11:37 am | #
Takeout should be GRADED in my opinion based on the difficulty of the wager and size of potential payouts.
For example:
WPS—10%
DD, EX - 12%
P3, TRI - 15%
P4, SUPR - 20%
P5, HI5 - 25%
P6 - 30%
Also, do away with BREAKAGE on straight wagers. They currently pay off to the penny on dime bets, so why not on WPS?
27 Feb 2013 at 11:46 am | #
Hey TCat, glad you won on the Rainbow and happy for you that Orb won.
My buddy at OTB is also a huge Phipps/Shug fan. I told him about you and how you follow breeding as well. He wanted me to ask you if you knew anything about Versailles Treaty? He came across a horse running one day that was out of her and, by Henry The Navigator, and was bred overseas. Do you know if the Phipps’ sold her, or, made one of those breeding deals they’re famous for?
Thanks
DM
27 Feb 2013 at 11:51 am | #
TC - I didn’t mean the jackpot. I was referring to the conso payoff you wrote about. You’re in my book as having made one of the best bets of all time for a very small amount wagered!
27 Feb 2013 at 12:30 pm | #
Hey Denny,
Versailles Treaty was a wonderful filly who won the Test at the SPA and then came back in two weeks to win the Alabama, in the good old days when you could.. She was owned by Ogden’s daughter Cynthia Phipps who tragically lost her life a couple of years back from a fire in her apartment building in Manhattan. The Phipps sold off all of her horses except Boisterous who is still in training and is a nice turf horse.
Henrythenavigator was a nice horse from Europe trained by Aiden O’Brian who finished second in the BC Classic.
If you don’t already know, equibase has a great horse search engine for past results, workouts, and bloodlines. I spend hours upon hours on that site daily. I know too much time on my hands and I need to get a life LOL
Time to go watch Overwhelming at GP!
27 Feb 2013 at 01:03 pm | #
T Cat, you are my muse. Actually, never realized how the Eagles knew about California racing all along. BTW: Part 1 of Eagles documentary first rate; think it’s Showtime, not sure.
Denny, I never wrote a column when some P6 guy made a huge score after investing $5K, why Rainbow now? BTW: The bettor invested $3100 and singled the cleverly bet 10-1 winner of the finale, deciding to hang his hat there. Brilliant play, not to mention ball-sy.
But love your graded takeout idea; not commenting on the amounts of each but really like that model. Need to think that one through a little more. Good job.
RD, “death by a thousand cuts, indeed.”
And, let’s see, the SA boycott didn’t hurt their business? Where’s Andy Asaro when you really need him?
27 Feb 2013 at 01:23 pm | #
So the idea of the boycott was to hurt their business? No, the idea was to make them return the takeout rates on the exotics to previous levels. Unless I missed something, the rates are still exactly where they were since the raise. The boycott did not work and part of the reason is the P5. Another reason is that people like you, who constantly bemoan the high levels of takeout kept playing there anyway. As to Andy Asaro, I couldn’t care less where he is as long as it is nowhere near me.
27 Feb 2013 at 01:53 pm | #
Instead of blaming us horseplayers for (un)successful boycotts, let’s just blame the general public for a bit. They need to stop being lazy by betting on games that take less than a minute to play. Horse racing is the way to go no matter if the takeout is 5% or 25%.
27 Feb 2013 at 04:20 pm | #
The low takeout P5 handle is up about 30% over the last year from the previous year. It is a fact that it increased handle on all the other wagers in the sequence and has been hailed by many as the best bet in the country when you consider pool size and takeout together.
As far as the boycott goes Santa Anita had it’s worst meet ever and Cal. Racing was on pace to be down 400 million by the end of Santa Anita. Once Hollywood Park to a shot with the low takeout Pick 5 Cal. Racing ended up down 250 million.
The boycott got us a seat at the table at industry meetings. It got us the low takeout P5 and the WPS didn’t go up to 16% take as planned.
Maybe OTM Al can tell us when such a movement had this much effect on a major racing jurisdiction. Al is a bitter know it all and a well know industry shill for NYRA. Enough said.
27 Feb 2013 at 04:24 pm | #
Great and takeout is still what it was on the exotics. What was the point of the boycott? I’m so happy we now have a wager that’s extremely difficult to hit. That sure helped us all. I won’t say what I think about Mr. Asaro as I abide by the terms of service of this site.
27 Feb 2013 at 04:30 pm | #
By the way there are about 47 exotic wagers on the typical 9 race card. Why is it a problem to have one for the Customers.
As for the history of the bet nobody except a few people thought it would handle over 100k. I thought it would handle over 100k but nowhere near what it has handled. Everyone who participated in they boycott including the Gambler friendly commentary on this website have a little piece of the P5 and with that first step now know that the Customers can be heard and can effect change.
Keith Brackpool: “It will be lucky to handle 20k and be gone in three months”
TOC: The bet is a loser and won’t handle more than 35k.
There is so much more about the truth and what really happened leading up to and into the boycott that it would take 10 pages to go through.
27 Feb 2013 at 04:32 pm | #
Al, who cares what you think? Certainly not me. By the way nice work on alerting NYRA to their overcharging of the Customers. You claim to be an insider and know what’s going on but you missed that one. What exactly have you EVER done to directly benefit the game or the Customers who gamble on it?
27 Feb 2013 at 04:39 pm | #
Mr. Pricci, I will not be baited by this individual. While I frequently disagree with you, I will maintain enough respect for you and this site to not stoop to the level that this individual is trying to incite. I could give a long list about this person and the reprehensible behavior that he has exhibited. However this is not an appropriate forum for such activity. I appoligize to you for what has happened here and would approve if you wished to delete it all. I maintain my opinions and will express them when I disagree (or agree, as it does happen from time to time) with you. Again my appologies.
27 Feb 2013 at 04:40 pm | #
Ummm Al, I think you’re the one that did the baiting. But then again the truth doesn’t matter to you much.
27 Feb 2013 at 04:59 pm | #
For those of you reading who like to know the TRUTH, the truth is if we/I had to do it over again there would probably have been changes to our approach but the boycott was a “first ever” deal for Horseplayers and we made on heck of an impact.
As far as me personally, of course I have regrets and would change some of the things I said during the fight.
The one thing that I will NEVER understand is why certain people knock us for trying to make things better. It’s the equivalent of a guy sitting next to you at the Track who gets mad when someone around him wins. I’ll never understand that type of person and I did/do overreact when I have an exchange with that certain type of person.
27 Feb 2013 at 05:33 pm | #
By the way if anyone wants to listen to the replay of the CHRB meeting where this all really started then click the link and go to the most recent date on top. It starts about 20 minutes into it when Jack Liebau goes to talk. Then they get into the P5 stuff. What’s really amazing is that NONE of the Commissioners get handle reports and their comments are out of pure ignorance. I’ve heard that they will be schooled on subject of the P5 and get regular handle analysis from now on.
Click the link to listen.
http://www.selectstreaming.com/live/chrb/archives.php
27 Feb 2013 at 05:37 pm | #
Got this email from Harry “The Hat” Hacek.
From the desk of
Harry “The Hat” Hacek
In an article written by Steve Andersen that appeared in the Daily Racing Form as far back as September 3, 2010, I found some interesting quotes and one very interesting possible omission.
The article was well written. It covered the legislation that was passed concerning the takeout on exotic wagers placed on California races that was eventually signed by then Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.
The new takeout has proven to be a hot and controversial subject. I feel the general betting public got unnecessarily shafted simply because the bureaucrats of California racing refuse to improve the program; not wanting or seeking added competition. So the easy remedy was just to gouge the betting public a little more. Where will it stop? Can anyone imagine how happy Burger King would be if McDonald’s cut their portion sizes and significantly increased the prices of the product? In essence that is exactly what racing in California has done. Are you listening Mike Pegram? Things should be reversed.
The gouging of the betting public was inconsiderate. They were taken for granted by an industry headed by greed. But the bettors did not take it lying down and have put their chest out. I urge they continue to show their strength. If they pay premium taxes, they should get a premium program.
Can the bettors or rank and file of horsemen consider what they are getting at Santa Anita premium?
The legislative bill specifically stated that revenue from additional takeout would be dedicated to overnight purses. Does anyone think that has happened in a fair and equitable manner?
How the money has been distributed at Santa Anita has proven to be a sham; with the well connected of the TOC being the main benefactors.
27 Feb 2013 at 06:58 pm | #
Excellent piece, JP! Worthy of addition to the PlayersBoycott.org site hall of fame along with the pieces by Plonk, Finley, and Christine! Articles by Crist and Davidowitz in opposition to the now infamous increase in takeout are there as well, but neither celebrity horseplayer followed it up with actual support for the boycott although the latter indicated he might. Maybe this time around, more media support will be forthcoming, and horseplayers whose product sales might be affected by a boycott will step up anyway.
Even noted boycott opponent, Ray Paulick, recently conceded that takeout increase was wrong.
27 Feb 2013 at 07:06 pm | #
Cat, you are in mid-season form today.
AA,I suppose it was inevitable that the Old Trolling Malevolent one would finally lose it. Who knew it would be here in a blizzard of blathering bluster attempting to blister horseplayer activism, and attack its most ardent advocate?
What is it called when a master of baiting accuses others of said practice in the wake of his own such emissions?
27 Feb 2013 at 07:09 pm | #
Indy, you’re killing me. LOL
27 Feb 2013 at 07:54 pm | #
Hey Al, Keep up the good work.
NYRA studying the feasibility of installing synthetic surfaces at both Belmont and Aqueduct. http://www.drf.com/news/equine-safety-committee-recommends-nyra-consider-medication-house-rules
28 Feb 2013 at 07:26 am | #
Del Mar makes horseracing history with Pick 5 pool | UTSanDiego.com
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/aug/15/del-mar-makes-horseracing-history-pick-5-pool/
DEL MAR — Del Mar made horseracing history today in the first race when nearly $3 million was bet on the 50-cent Pick 5.
Andy Asaro, a handicapper and horseplayer advocate who calls for lower takeout on wagers, said Del Mar’s Pick 5 pool was the largest exotic pool to start a racing card ever, including Breeders’ Cup and Kentucky Derby days.
Asaro praised Jack Liebau and Bernie Thurman of Betfair Hollywood Park for “taking a shot with this bet.” Otherwise, Asaro said “it never would have happened.”
Going into the third race, the start of the Pick 6, the pool topped $1.5 million, giving Del Mar over $4.5 million in total pools for the Pick 5 and Pick 6 wagers.
28 Feb 2013 at 08:07 am | #
Keep up the passion gents but please dial down the personal rhetoric a bit. It has become cliche to say the following but even OTM is entitled to his own opinion.
To what extent the first boycott was successful is a matter of opinion. But to deny that it had any effect is disingenuous and not consistent with the facts.
28 Feb 2013 at 08:58 am | #
Mr. Pricci, thank you for your consideration. I have never denied that the boycott had effect. However it did not gain the result that was stated, to force the take back to where it was before it was raised. Was there another point here that made this unimportant? I blame part of this on the effect the P5 had on blunting the impact of the boycott. I am not the only one who has said this including on this site. Not only has it created a new pool that is quite active, but as you have stated very recently, these types of bets encourage those less disciplined with their betting to bet the individual races, thus putting money back into the pools that were supposed to be boycotted. Now we hear that the rate on this bet may well be raised to that same increased level. So exactly how am I supposed to feel about the effect of this boycott?
28 Feb 2013 at 09:57 am | #
Al, how about showing us how it’s done by trying to make things better in New York. You certainly have a right to your opinion like everyone else but there’s a lot happening in N.Y. that kind of reminds me of what went on in California 6 years ago. What are you doing about it?
When the boycott started we were 2000-1 to make any impact at all but we overcame the odds and fought the good fight even though we were a long shot.
You don’t get into a fight/boycott only if you know when you’re going to win. Sometimes you have to fight even if you know you will lose. That’s what it takes if you have principles to stand up for.
28 Feb 2013 at 10:23 am | #
Most of the commentators above are going ga ga over the success of the pick five; it is very apparent that the only people making money on this stupid wager are the racetrack; the wagering hubs that offer the bet; and perhaps a syndicate, a grandmother using her license plate, or some bloke using his kids’ birthdays. No? Well then, just how many of you HRI readers have won a pick five? Yea, I know, just about all of you.
Am reminded of the time I was in a bar next door to an OTB in Lebanon, N.Y. Two guys at the bar were discussing how they loved the pick six. I asked them how many times they have ‘hit’ the pick six. After a pause, one said he had gotten five once.
Question: do any of you people actually wager on the ponies? You do? Then you all must have an abundance of money to throw away.
28 Feb 2013 at 10:34 am | #
wmcorrow, the Tracks make the least amount of money on the wager. The overwhelming majority of the money goes to the TOC for purses.
The Pick 5 is in the first race of the day and in California they keep the smallest fields out of the P6 sequence. So, the P5 is not that hard to hit. I typically play anywhere from $32 to $72 tickets and have hit several.
28 Feb 2013 at 11:20 am | #
To give the readers a little history of what really happened you have to understand the deal that was made at the time.
At the time Hollywood Park wanted to put the bet in but the TOC felt that it was a loser. The TOC waited till the last minute and said that they would only let the bet be put in if they got the lions share of the takeout. At the time I told Hollywood NOT to put it in but to their credit they did anyway with the undertanding that if it was successful they would adjust the deal later on. To this day they have never given the Tracks a fair cut of the P5 takeout. That plays a big part in what’s going on now because the Tracks want them to keep their word but the TOC could care less. The TOC has so much power that it much easier for the tracks to raise the takeout than do the right thing by the Customer. And that’s why I doing what I’m doing right now.
28 Feb 2013 at 12:42 pm | #
Andy, do you happen to know if SA gets a bigger--check that--fairer slice of the pie?
28 Feb 2013 at 02:08 pm | #
No, they all get screwed the same. The TOC has been taking their lunch money for almost two years now and they keep putting up with it. I’ve argued that they should get an equal cut 10 times more than they have. At this point I’m no longer going to argue on their behalf.
28 Feb 2013 at 02:57 pm | #
I don’t give a hoot what the track makes on the pick five, or what TOC makes; or, what the takeout rate is. Any bettor, who is not suffocating with to much disposable income, is a complete moron for even considering wagering on the pick five; unless of course, you are a dime wager bettor.
Me, and my group of sharpies, will book any and all of you HRI readers who want to wager on the pick five anywhere in this country on any given day, and there is no takeout - you will have all of your money ‘working’, if you know what that means.
Again, do any of you commentators actual bet with serious money on the pick five?
28 Feb 2013 at 03:05 pm | #
Hey Mr. Big. Yes, you wmcorrow, your the one that said the tracks were making all the money on the P5. With pool size and takeout It’s the best bet in racing. As far as how much different people bet I’m sure you and your group of “sharpies” are the biggest whales on the planet. Wow!
And by the way if you have to wager more the $32 to $72 dollars to have a “legitimate” shot at winning then you’re not much of a handicapper.
28 Feb 2013 at 03:50 pm | #
#42: First of all, I never get personal. I do wish, though, that people called me Mr. Big - sort of would give me a little respect in the neighborhood, among the children I’m sure.
Quoting you, ‘with pool size and takeout it’s the best bet in racing’. For who may I ask?
The pick five may be the best bet in racing from a takeout point-of-view, but it is a sucker bet for any horseplayer. Any bettor who is considering wager on a pick five or a pick six should instead purchase a few Powerball tickets and then visit a psychiatrist.
FYI, I am very far from being a ‘whale’, and rarely wager more than $20 on a race (well, when I was working back in the sixties and seventies, you can add a zero). Also, I only wager win, doubles, and pick threes - and (attention Mr. Pricci and Mr. Kling) only at lowly claiming racetracks. Years ago I quit wagering on NYRA tracks, finding that I seemed to cash more tickets on claiming races at Philly, Laurel/Pimlico, Finger Lakes, et cetera.
After all, isn’t it about making money, or is it about worshipping every year a handful of thoroughbreds trained by Pletcher, Baffert, et cetera?
You are right, I am a lousy handicapper. After fifty-five years of reading the Morning Telegraph, the Daily Racing Form, and other publications, I still have difficulty winning a double or pick three - tough ‘game’.
28 Feb 2013 at 03:55 pm | #
wmcorrow, you know what? I’ll defer to you.
28 Feb 2013 at 04:07 pm | #
#44: Thank you. Got any thing ‘hot’ for tomorrow?
28 Feb 2013 at 04:12 pm | #
I just got nosed out in the first at Santa Anita.
Onward and Upward.
01 Mar 2013 at 12:35 am | #
The best bet in racing gets even better today with a P5 carryover at Santa Anita. The best bet in racing gets even better today.
Thank the Lord some Horseplayers fought the good fight to get the low takeout P5 put in Cal. Racing.
Hey --, it’s Karma! LOL
01 Mar 2013 at 06:35 am | #
#47: Let me know if you win this best bet in racing, not just today but ever.
01 Mar 2013 at 03:14 pm | #
You’ve got to clean those spectacles wm. I’ve already stated that I’ve hit several.
Today I’m playing a $48 ticket two times. 2 by 1 by 3 by 4 by 4. My single is the #2 in the second at Santa Anita.