Ehalt argues that between Saratoga’s popularity--showing no signs of waning--and the struggles of tracks downstate to coax live bodies into its buildings, that Saratoga should host a summer meet from the 4th of July through Labor Day.
It probably was more than a dozen years ago, just after our Saratoga Diary came of age at 21 years, when we made the same suggestion. It wasn’t so much that it was a great idea, or even a desirable one, but the notion seemed inevitable.
Forget that a bad day at Saratoga--roughly 10,000 fans--is 250% greater than an average day at Belmont Park. And never mind that Saratoga is the word you hear most often about one hour after the Belmont Stakes horses reach the finish line.
Forget, too, that racing on a mile and an eighth track is more aggressively exciting and, on balance, more predictable than those at big Big Sandy, everything else being equal. (Talking main track, not turf courses here).
Above all, finally, how many of America’s best race horses wind up here at one point or another, making Saratoga still the classiest, most competitive race meet attracting pool liquidity like no other and the best place to make a score on one event.
Frankly, I would like to see a Saratoga summer meet, but only with certain criteria. If it doesn’t work, scrap it the next year.
First, a Saratoga summer meet must be a five-day race week. If it is expected that people relocate for two months, they must continue to have a) a life, and, b) an opportunity to freshen up the day after all life’s errands are run.
If you want to keep your workforce happy, they must be provided a little “me time.” Should visitors be the only ones allowed to have some fun? A race day is pressure packed. Having time to unwind is important.
A happy worker provides better customer service. And if you’re a bettor, it’s impossible to remain focused when you’re mentally and physically exhausted. Then legislators and suits would need to know a little something about gambling to appreciate that.
Want to keep those fields full with quality horses for eight weeks instead of six and a half? That’s very simple. Conduct nine-race cards every day except Thursdays (steeplechasing) and weekends.
No one will have a problem with a dozen races on Travers day, with an 11:45 a.m. post time.
Seriously consider a 12:45 p.m. start every day. It’s earlier, but not to a fault, and it should be good for business. Adding one minute between races contributes to the Spa’s leisurely pace and will be appreciated by the simulcast crowd and horsemen alike.
One final alteration; the meet not need be extended to run through Labor Day. The stand should end on the final weekend in August and close with what Saratoga is essentially all about.
Parenthetically, give families a chance to return home and get youngster ready for school or time to get back to work, locals and visitors both. After a week’s hiatus, run the Woodward on Labor Day weekend, the opening of Belmont Fall. Spacing to the Jockey Club Gold Cup doesn’t change. Give fans a reason to show up.
So, in addition to any other stakes the racing office wants to schedule for Saratoga’s final weekend, the Travers, in its customary calendar spot, should be the final Saturday of the meet: You build towards a climax and your biggest event brings the curtain down.
Closing day is the following Sunday and, again, whatever other stakes are offered is fine, but the Spa will always be about the babies. The Hopeful and Spinaway should be the final two races of the closing-day program. Leave fans wanting more!
End on a high note--a Saratoga note--not with maiden claimers on the turf for horses that can’t reliably get 9 furlongs, as was sadly the case this year.
The Chamber of Commerce will be happy, as will bars, restaurants, and other service industries, and renters will be happy, too—more money for the negligible difference between 6-1/2 and 8 weeks.
Racetrackers would have a life and could take a deep breath once a week. Revenue would grow. And the New York City ballet people will be just fine. When it comes to Saratoga, money makes more than just the mare go.
No Lasix for Juveniles? It Can Be Done
Excellent piece of research by Saratogian columnist Jeff Scott. Last year, 58 two-year-olds, or eight percent of total juvenile starters, raced without Lasix. This year there were 141, or 20 percent of juvenile starters.
The 141 Lasix-free two-year-olds ran in 71 races and of the 141, nine were post-time favorites. That whole group compiled a slate of (141) 10-13-14. In all, 12.67% of the Lasix-free horses won 14.08 of races run, with an in-the-money percentage of 52.11.
While the sample is small, obviously, the non-Lasix two-year-olds are trending in the right direction.
The reason non-Lasix horses are competing without the diuretic is two-fold: Some raceday-medication critics are walking their talk; others are conducting a grand Breeders’ Cup Juvenile experiment, since Lasix use is barred from juvenile competition this year.
It seems that several outcomes are possible. The number of Europeans that wouldn’t make the trip because the air miles from Europe double when California hosts the event and because the synthetic surface has been replaced by conventional dirt.
In the juvenile races, anyway, the no-Lasix rule could increase European participation thinking that, for them, the playing field is more level.
There are several issues I have a hard time discerning: Why would trainers race their two-year-olds on Lasix if they have to come off it on Breeders’ Cup day? And how is the betting public expected to deal with this?
Unfortunately, I see a scenario playing out whereby the majority of pro-raceday Lasix trainers will argue: See, horses need it and these form reversals will continue if you compel us to get our horses off Lasix.
Of course, the remedy for that is to not use the performance enhancer in the first place. That’s why--if and when raceday medication is banned--you start with the two-year-olds and grandfather in all three-year-olds and older until their racing careers end.
But for now, as long as raceday Lasix remains legal, horsemen will continue to champion the status quo and will come up with tons of Breeders’ Cup juvenile data crafted to make their case.


12 Sep 2012 at 10:18 pm | #
“A happy worker provides better customer service.”
You were referring to the NYRA, right? Customer service? That is not part of their vocabulary. To put it bluntly, they believe that they have to do nothing, and will not fail, and with respect to Saratoga, this is probably true. But unfortunately, this kind of thinking is what got them into the trouble they’re in, in the first place. They continued to restrain trade when they were on top, and nobody was smart enough that the model did not work anymore, and that the third-world tracks were catching up, and soon overtook them. Idiots. Sorry for telling the truth. I realize there are many persons who cannot tell the truth because of their affiliation.
TTT
12 Sep 2012 at 10:32 pm | #
You make a couple of statements: 1) and the best
place to make a score on one event, and 2) revenue would grow.
The first comment is simply your opinion and is not, and cannot be, verified by anyone. Scores are made every day at numerous racetracks across this Obama led country? Just how will revenue grow?
Sure revenue will grow for the business located off of Saratoga Racetrack property (the night life).
The question remains: Was the current meet at Saratoga profitable? Did the takeout from handle and signal fees of all the daily races at Saratoga cover the purses offered and the daily operating expenses and costs? Or, did slot revenue pay for just about all of the purses, expenses, and costs?
I know the answer, as do you.
Go Cuomo!
13 Sep 2012 at 12:05 am | #
TTT: Don’t understand what your last sentence is supposed to mean. Got something to say T, why not just say it?
WMC: The Saratoga meet was profitable, but I can only speak for myself. Happy things are going well at Parx, the home of the 30% takeout.
13 Sep 2012 at 02:15 am | #
My last sentence means that the Emperor is naked. The more people who are willing to say that, the better the chances of it being fixed. Was not pointing the finger at you, or anybody else. I did not mean to offend you, or anybody else. Forgive me if I have. Do not mean to be negative, but guess I’m just striving for some kine of utopia in New York, which we will probably never see.
TTT
13 Sep 2012 at 03:22 am | #
Mr. Pricci: That you were personally profitable this year at Saratoga is fine; my question pertained to whether NYRA’s Saratoga meet was profitable, without Casino dole.
Don’t understand your criticism of Parx takeout of 30%, which is only on trifectas and supers, when NYRA’s takeout is 25%. Is 5% a big deal.
I wager on only doubles and pick threes at Parx, the takeout rate being 20% and 26%; NYRA’s takeout on same is 17.5% and 25%
Anyway, if one is picking winners readily, takeout is a minor intrusion.
13 Sep 2012 at 03:33 am | #
I would gladly attend and support the longer meet under the conditions you outlined.
---
Hope that some consideration is given to improving creature comforts at the Spa as well. Not just for the rich, but, give the average fans and bettors an upgrade of the grounds and facilities. A backyard with green grass, a view of the track from reduced price seats, low cost food, a paddock and walking ring with a better view of the horses, reduced admission, free programs. I could go on and on.
Truthfully, the whole facility could use an upgrade, front and back. Too bad Belmont Park can’t be relocated to Saratoga Springs!
---
Hope the Lasix drugged horses all run poorly in this years BC and everyone sees what a performance enhancer it is. No phony excuses allowed, either.
Go Phipps and Darley
13 Sep 2012 at 03:53 am | #
wmcorrow,
5% is a huge deal. People with your attitude is why tracks get away the exhorbitant takeouts that exist today.
Check out H.A.N.A.’s website one of these days.
Parx ranks #61 out of 68 tracks ranked overall.
If you want to play small tracks, consider Tampa Bay Downs 18% takeout on both doubles & Pick3’s.
Den
13 Sep 2012 at 04:35 am | #
Preach,
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
Till it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a Racino!!!
Thank you!!!! Good job with the Lasix issue of the 2yr olds. I have always loved the 2 yr old races and have made many scores with the breeding angle. This year I have boycotted the baby races in protest. Horsemen need to stop trying to make a fast buck before there is nothing left to make. Sacrifice now for the future.
Question for you or anybody. Who is the big star horse out there in the USA with a household name that would make the casual horseracing fan go to the racetrack and bring a newbie? There’s a reason for this. Wake up horsemen! Get rid of Lasix starting with the two year olds. It works in Europe and around the world. Hello!!! Anybody home? Enter Frankel!!!
Call me old fashioned, but to me “more is less”. Don’t extend the Saratoga meet. This year the quality seemed watered down even with the higher purses. I liked it best when it was four weeks, everyday was really really special. I could live with your proposal cut to six weeks, five racing days and nine race cards except Travers day. Yes please bring back the Woodward to Belmont Park and make it a Fall Championship meet again. Please don’t pave my beloved Big Sandy and put up a Racino.
and the beat goes on… maybe…
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot spot
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
Till it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
They took all the trees
Put ‘em in a tree museum
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see ‘em
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
Till it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
Hey farmer farmer
Put away that DDT now
Give me spots on my apples
But leave me the birds and the bees
Please!
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
Till it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
Late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Took away my old man
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
Till it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot…
13 Sep 2012 at 03:34 pm | #
Tear down the fences; I don’t care about your insurance problem. My fondest memories as a kid in the early 60s was rubbing elbows with some of those old-time trainers while they were being saddled.
Get rid of the merchandise being sold; it’s not a flea market, it is a racetrack.
If you insist on those giveaways, how about a women’s panty day, it could say: “The Summer Place to Be.”
Lower the beer price to $3.00 so more people will get drunk, and fewer picknickers with their humongous coolers. Newsflash, drunk people bet more. Is that really how you want to make your money, on beer? That’s what Siro’s and “The Shoe” are for.
Guess I’m different than most folks; wish they ran 7-days a week; I begin crying just before the last race, and don’t stop until an hour before post time the next racing day.
Whatever they do, they better not tear down the old structures, and should maintain the old-time feel it used to have; for me that is the beauty of the place.
Get rid of the equine babblers who equivocate pre-race, and leave the novice scratching their head, and the hardened degenerates ready to go postal, or in the alternative; give them a time limit of 15 seconds, then cut off the sound, or better yet, a couple of muzzles.
I’m convinced that the Saratoga Racetrack was the site of the Garden of Eden before the fall. What have we done!
TTT
13 Sep 2012 at 08:02 pm | #
T, I’ll take you at your word. Yes, there are media members whose organizations have unhealthy ties with the industry. But, whether any of the prople who contribute to HRI agree or disagree with the industry, or a particular racetrack, HRI never will be accused of being stenographers to power.
Sadly, there are many other turf writers/bloggers who cozy up to industry types for personal gain. I suppose they know who they are as well.
WMC, It is up to the individual racetracks to make a profit the best ways they see fit. I would like all to prosper since it would be in the best interests of the industry. Whether they do or not is not my concern. My only constituents are the horseplayers and I can only promise to do my level best to improve their plight. Will continue to win some and lose some, on every level, but will never stop trying. They will have to pry the PPs out of my cold, dead hands.
And, yes, takeout rates at ALL tracks are too high. It’s about churn; nothing more, nothing less.
Denny, it is hoped, if and when improvements are made at the Spa, that they are not limited to the clubhouse area. And, BTW, I once paid $5.75 for an ersatz fresh-squeezed lemonade--but only once. Disgraceful.
And imagine wanting more people to come into your building but continue charging too much for the product, a good place to view it, and for the sustenance needed to spend an entire day there? It’s not like people aren’t BETTING their money!
A final thought. No changes are set in stone. If they don’t work, new ideas can always be scrapped.
Cat, to me, racing started to go downhill after dress codes were eliminated from the clubhouse. And Saratoga became less special when horses no longer were permitted to saddle beneath the trees. (Yeah, I know, I know...)
13 Sep 2012 at 09:50 pm | #
I have deeply profound that you, Mr. Pricci, state that you, basically, could care less whether racetracks are profitable. Without racetracks where do the horseplayers, that you desire to improve their plight, wager?
We all know the story: Back in the seventies Thoroughbred racing was the only gambling venue, thus all racetracks enjoyed profits. And, today, faced with competition for the gambling dollar, racetracks are getting their butts kicked; and that
casino dole has kept just about all racetracks in operation for the last decade. Politicians (mentioned numerous times at HRI already) fearing for their job, chose to allow slots at racetracks to prevent their ‘pissing off’ their constituency with their sudden interest in casino gambling.
With new found money, racetrack management chose to solidify their pension plan and increase their salary, and increased purses to obscene amounts; instead of using the ‘gift’ wisely.
Unfortunately, the economy turned downward, and politicians faced with budgets, finally, started thinking (imagine that, politicians thinking): why is all this casino dole going to racetracks?
Brilliant discovery!!!!
It should be obvious to all that the honeymoon between casinos and racetracks has reached the end of the line; this would not be the situation if racetracks, enjoying casino dole, had used casino money to promote Thoroughbred racing instead of using the ‘gift’ for salaries, pension payments, and purses.
Currently, takeout from handle and money received from signal fees do not come anywhere close to even paying for the purses. So, why are purses so high? Where is the desire for racetrack management to operate profitably?
Is there any solution to the dilemma? I believe that Mr. Pricci, as have I, wrote at HRI that the industry should consider fixed odds wagering; now,
with fixed wagering in place, racetracks receive 100% of a dollar wagered, not 15 to 25% for on-track wagering. And, they can shutoff all signals to wagering hubs until a better agreement is negotiated.
Sure, if a nag wins at 2-1 and thousands are wagered on the plug, the track takes a huge hit.
Also, when a 20-1 pops. But, don’t casinos offer fixed odds on craps, blackjack, and every other gambling vehicle within their house. And when that 2-1 runs up-the-track, the money pours in.
So, I guess my question is: racetracks are in the business of gambling, as are casinos. Casinos offer fixed odds; are they going out of business?
13 Sep 2012 at 11:01 pm | #
#11 - unless they were abble to adjust prices like the old time bookmakers, fixed odds would drive tracks out of business. they don’t have people capable of making an accurate line anymore. the sharpies would kill them.
13 Sep 2012 at 11:13 pm | #
Getting involved commenting here really can be a time-sucking black hole… But so entertaining!
14 Sep 2012 at 02:59 am | #
Cat, try filling this space virtually every day! Better than busting rocks, I suppose.
14 Sep 2012 at 03:17 am | #
John:
I just had to join with Triple T in calling for a return to yesteryear at Saratoga. Those fences have to come down; blast the insurance brokers. If Ron Reagan was around, he would tell Prince Andrew to tear down those blasted fences!
Just like Teddy, I loved standing in those walking rings,next to the Giants of the turf, like The Chief, Laz, Gaver, Rondinello, Nerud, etc. Please also allow me one remembrance for Mr. Mackenzie Miller-in the dictionary next to the word, “gentleman” is Mac’s picture. He was what Saratoga was all about and always will be.
With respect to your proposal, I don’t know if eight weeks will work. However, I do agree with you, my thoughts turn to Saratoga as I’m walking out of Belmont on Belmont day. Unfortunately, Beautiful Belmont is an anachronism in today’s world. It no longer serves its once glorious purpose save for Belmont Day. It is indeed a virtual ghost town after Independence Day. John, your proposal deserves consideration. One can only hope that the Prince will consider all solutions for improving the NY racing experience. Nevertheless, we are now 10 days past Saratoga and there is nothing but deadly silence from the Executive Mansion about this multi-billion dollar industry. My fear is not about the silence, it is rather that, in the end, and just like his sainted father, he cares not one iota about us! Heaven help us!
14 Sep 2012 at 04:17 am | #
wmcorrow
Sir I do not comment often but if you think the takeout is not important I feel sorry for you. Do you think there is a reason why over 20% is bet off shore;. Do you think there is a reason th big players went to Vegas and then quit when the rebates stopped? Maybe you are right,if I bet 100k a year that is only $5000 difference.
14 Sep 2012 at 05:04 am | #
I believe that I have seen some of the most stupifying comments I have ever seen on this site.
Take down the fences? Good idea, and when a horse gets panicked by the press of the crowd, which by the way is much bigger than your beloved yesterdays, and kicks some five year old’s head in what exactly do you think is going to happen? End of racing in the State would be a good answer to that.
Customer service non existant? What do you want, someone to wipe your rear for you when you take a dump? Oh yeah, it’s their fault you lost your bet. Don’t come to the track is my advice to you if you think it is so bad. More room for me and the other 20,000 enjoying the day. The wifi was great, the food choices were excellent. Trash was being removed every half an hour leaving the place much cleaner by the end of the day. Every day I walked in a lady in a red vest was greating me and wishing me a great day.
Yeah and let’s encourage hard core drinking with $3 beers. Oh wait, they do have $3 beers right at the same place you can get $2 hotdogs.
And those equine babblers are some of the best in the industry. It’s not their fault you are a serial loser.
But my favorite of all was about the grass in the back yard. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this one. When that many people walk on the grass every day, it gets ripped out. You want grass you might as well propose that no one be allowed to sit in the back yard anymore.
So you, Mr. Pricci, paid $5.75 for a lemonade? Where? Wasn’t this year anyway. Large was $6 and the smaller size either $4 or $4.50. Can’t remeber because I always got the large. Oh yeah, unlike other sports venues you can BRING YOUR OWN FOOD AND DRINK. So who’s fault is it that you paid that money? This comment is as stupid as Ed Fountaine’s complaint about the $22 quesadilla. I hunted for that but couldn’t find it anywhere, so figured he just made it up or wrote something he heard becuase as usual, no one but those bloggers you seem to hate (and I’m pretty sure I know them) seem to actually leave the press box for a real look around. And I really wanted to try that quesadilla.
And this continual complaining about the length of the day makes my head hurt. Newsflash, you don’t have to bet every race. Matter of fact you probably shouldn’t unless you have a lot of cash to spare. I had no problem chosing what races I wanted to play. If they were early I played them and then wandered off to do something else around town. If they were late I wandered over later in the afternoon. You are allowed to do that. Turf course looked just fine at the end of the meet by the way.
You know, when I first read this I was going to applaud you Mr. Pricci, for a decently thought out piece, but after reading these comments and your response to them, I am hard pressed to think you actually believe a thing you wrote. The worst thing about this game is the constant childish whining. I’m hard pressed to think that many of those posting here would know a real problem if they saw it. I and the other 20,000 or so people around the old place had a pretty good time every day.
14 Sep 2012 at 07:12 am | #
Serial NYRA Apologist: My college buddy and I paid $5.75 for a large lemondade on the second floor in the grandstand. I remember thinking that the cost was designed to leave .25 as a tip, a racetrack tradition which is fine.
It was a young girl--probably from Skidmore working a summer job. And, by the way, if it were $6 and I did make a mistake, I rest my case. It’s not Yankee Stadium, it’s a racetrack in upstate NY.
You never miss an opportunity to knock. That’s fine, goes with the territory, especially if you believe everything you write.
The length of the day? What does that have to do with betting every race? It’s not about betting. It’s about the customer and the worker, the local customers and the bartenders and waiters who work around town, people I talk to about every third night or so. That part of the piece was reflecting what they thought, what they say, and my own feelings. This is a column; as stated, we’re not a stenographer to power.
I happened to be in the grandstand again closing day, a tradition my wife and I keep. Fans by the hundreds began exiting the track after the eighth of 11 races; the Hopeful hadn’t been run yet! How does that serve the game?
Oh, and the (yeah, I know, I know) written above was an acknowledgement to concerns re crowd control, cost of insurance, safety, and the fact that attendance is bigger these days than when I first visited Saratoga. (Malicious won the one-mile Jim Dandy out of the Wilson Mile chute).
I could go on but why bother? Have a good evening.
14 Sep 2012 at 07:27 am | #
#12: Have the sharpies put one casino out of business?
#16: Of course takeout is important, if one is wagering big bucks. I wager small bucks, roughly
$100 to $140 daily, and I believe the amount I wager daily is equal to the vast majority of horseplayers around the country; thus whether takeout is 15% or 30%, the different in dollars isn’t really significant. Remember, you have to cash tickets to survive. A reduction in takeout isn’t going to make you rich.
I wish I could comment on Saratoga, its ambience, its history, and the (I guess) enjoyment of getting close to Grade I thoroughbreds; but, I prefer to gamble elsewhere, as over time I realized that Saratoga is simply to difficult to handicap - few, very few, have a profitable Saratoga meet (oh, I know you commenters all did, as did the characters at the local OTB joint who went there - so they said).
In summation, if you pick winners, you don’t have to worry about takeout.
14 Sep 2012 at 01:48 pm | #
Wendell,
1) About your question, “Have the sharpies put one casino out of business?” The answer is, yes, they did.
It was called the Sport of Kings, in Las Vegas. It took horse racing bets and, if my memory is accurate, and I believe it is, it DID NOT pool those bets with the racetracks on which it took bets.
The result was bettors could pick and choose when to take the Sport of Kings’ odds or racetrack odds through associates at the track and casino.
I believe it took less than 2 years to put it out of business.
2) On a different topic, you said, “takeout is important, if one is wagering big bucks. I wager small bucks, roughly $100 to $140 daily...”
If you wager $100 a day for 100 days per year, you have bet $10,000. The difference between 15 and 30% takeout is $1500 versus $3000.
$1500 is not important to you?
3) Finally, you said, “if you pick winners, you don’t have to worry about takeout.”
That, Wendell, may be the silliest thing you’ve ever put on this website.
If you pick losers the takeout is 100%. The track takeout ONLY MATTERS when you pick and bet winners and get some money back.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Wendell.
14 Sep 2012 at 02:20 pm | #
Mr. Kling: Yes, you are correct about the Sport of Kings. I now remember. I know that casino did something different, perhaps not pooling.
I would like you and others to give thought to racetracks using fixed odds. I haven’t thought it through, but it seems to me that fixed odds would benefit both the racetrack and the bettor. At least a bettor would have 100% of his money working. The racetrack would now be “at risk”, and not enjoy a position of can’t lose (but they still manage to lose, don’t they) as are casinos.
But, casinos are thriving with fixed odds. Hmmmm?
Why can’t there be fixed odds on the sport (ugh) of kings: Thoroughbred racing.
Mr. Kling, why don’t you give up your morning coffee, and save $1,500 a year; or drive less; or only wager every other day, et cetera.
Your calculation is just that: a calculation. In the real world, though, I receive cash when cashing, and in one day I can earn $1,500, and have. On a daily basis whether the takeout is 15% or 30% it is peanuts to me. One winning ticket on a favorite makes up the difference in takeout for the day.
If I were a whale, yes I would pay more attention to takeout.
Your second to last statement is interesting. Since just about everyone is a loser, and losing tickets out number winning tickets by a huge amount, I guess, as you say, takeout ONLY MATTERS, on winning tickets, so what’s the fuss? Since everyone losses over time, takeout seems moot to the small player.
To early for a Foster’s, will have a coffee.
14 Sep 2012 at 03:11 pm | #
Wendell,
Your last two comments on the subject of takeout speak for themselves, as I’m sure anyone who learned how to add 2 + 2 can tell.
14 Sep 2012 at 04:38 pm | #
Or, Mr. Kling, consider the following philosophy as expressed by a horseplayer years ago: on a bus ride to the Bowie racetrack some guy held up the buss and all the horseplayers on the buss were robbed of their money. When interviewed later, one bloke said, “What’s the big deal, I would have lost it anyway at the track”.
14 Sep 2012 at 04:57 pm | #
Dear OTM Al:
I love a man who says what’s on his mind.
After reading your thoughts, got the impression you were in NYRA management, but after seeing your proper use of grammar and spelling, and your cognizant reasoning, that’s impossible.
Teddy of the Turf
14 Sep 2012 at 05:07 pm | #
This thread should really be titled “On Restoring Sanity to todays horseracing fan”. After reading some of these comments why would anyone on the outside want to become part of horseracing. People on the outside must think horseplayers are the dumbest living thing on this planet. Here are snippets of the comments:
#1-You were referring to the NYRA, right? Customer service? That is not part of their vocabulary.
#2-The question remains: Was the current meet at Saratoga profitable? Did the takeout from handle and signal fees of all the daily races at Saratoga cover the purses offered and the daily operating expenses and costs? Or, did slot revenue pay for just about all of the purses, expenses, and costs?
#3-The Saratoga meet was profitable, but I can only speak for myself. Happy things are going well at Parx, the home of the 30% takeout.
#4-Do not mean to be negative, but guess I’m just striving for some kind of utopia in New York, which we will probably never see.
#5-Don’t understand your criticism of Parx takeout of 30%, which is only on trifectas and supers, when NYRA’s takeout is 25%. Is 5% a big deal. Anyway, if one is picking winners readily, takeout is a minor intrusion.
#6-Truthfully, the whole facility could use an upgrade, front and back. Too bad Belmont Park can’t be relocated to Saratoga Springs!
Hope the Lasix drugged horses all run poorly in this years BC and everyone sees what a performance enhancer it is.
#7-5% is a huge deal. People with your attitude is why tracks get away the exhorbitant takeouts that exist today.
#8-Question for you or anybody. Who is the big star horse out there in the USA with a household name that would make the casual horseracing fan go to the racetrack and bring a newbie?
#9-Get rid of the merchandise being sold; it’s not a flea market, it is a racetrack.
If you insist on those giveaways, how about a women’s panty day, it could say: “The Summer Place to Be.”
Lower the beer price to $3.00 so more people will get drunk, and fewer picknickers with their humongous coolers. Newsflash, drunk people bet more.
#10-to me, racing started to go downhill after dress codes were eliminated from the clubhouse. And Saratoga became less special when horses no longer were permitted to saddle beneath the trees.
#11- With new found money, racetrack management chose to solidify their pension plan and increase their salary, and increased purses to obscene amounts; instead of using the ‘gift’ wisely.
#15-Beautiful Belmont is an anachronism in today’s world. It no longer serves its once glorious purpose save for Belmont Day. It is indeed a virtual ghost town after Independence Day.
#16-Sir I do not comment often but if you think the takeout is not important I feel sorry for you. Do you think there is a reason why over 20% is bet off shore;. Do you think there is a reason th big players went to Vegas and then quit when the rebates stopped? Maybe you are right,if I bet 100k a year that is only $5000 difference
#17-Customer service non existant? What do you want, someone to wipe your rear for you when you take a dump? Oh yeah, it’s their fault you lost your bet. Don’t come to the track is my advice to you if you think it is so bad. More room for me and the other 20,000 enjoying the day.
#18-I happened to be in the grandstand again closing day, a tradition my wife and I keep. Fans by the hundreds began exiting the track after the eighth of 11 races; the Hopeful hadn’t been run yet! How does that serve the game?
#19- whether takeout is 15% or 30%, the different in dollars isn’t really significant. Remember, you have to cash tickets to survive. A reduction in takeout isn’t going to make you rich.
In summation, if you pick winners, you don’t have to worry about takeout.
#20-If you pick losers the takeout is 100%. The track takeout ONLY MATTERS when you pick and bet winners and get some money back. Wake up and smell the coffee.
#21- On a daily basis whether the takeout is 15% or 30% it is peanuts to me. One winning ticket on a favorite makes up the difference in takeout for the day. Since just about everyone is a loser, and losing tickets out number winning tickets by a huge amount, so what’s the fuss?
------------------------------------------------
and the beat goes on? huh?
14 Sep 2012 at 05:36 pm | #
I agree, people who are obsessed with song lyrics top the list. People who live in glass houses, shouldn’t go around naked.
TTT
14 Sep 2012 at 07:18 pm | #
Oh, and OTM Al, I’ve been suspected of being a serial killer, but your the first to call me a serial loser; as if. Looking forward to your next post, as I need a good laugh.
TTT
14 Sep 2012 at 07:40 pm | #
So Mr. Pricci, if it is really about the workers and you were sincere, then I question your absolute non response to the individual referring to them as idiots and saying they essentially do nothing. Which way is it?
As for your complaints about the lemonade, maybe they were cheaper in the grandstand. I always bought mine from the kid just inside the main gate. I tipped her a dollar each time. And complaining about “having” to pay $6 for a lemonade is rather humorous from a guy that put his name on a product that essentially picked 4 whole races for $10. Those “babblers” give you the same thing for free.
Fans leave early. If there were six reaces a day some would leave early. For years I’ve watched people go streaming out of the clubhouse gate before the Travers, Alabama and pretty much every other major race there is. If you cut back to 9 races they will still leave before these races if they are more concerned about beating traffic than watching another race.
I never miss an opportunity to knock something I think is ridiculous and there is quite a bit of that here. I’ll quote the most acurate thing written above “After reading some of these comments why would anyone on the outside want to become part of horseracing. People on the outside must think horseplayers are the dumbest living thing on this planet.” Thanks for helping with that impression.
14 Sep 2012 at 10:49 pm | #
Speaking of impressions, Serial NYRA Apologist, your responses display the arrogance so many associate with “old” NYRA. You might just be Team Cuomo’s greatest asset.
Your venomous visits here suggest things may not be going very well for your cronies. Perhaps your own betting results left something to be desired as well? Yours is not the voice of righteous indignation, but rather rage and retribution.
14 Sep 2012 at 10:51 pm | #
#28 and others: A very long time ago I learned/realized that the opinions of others should simply be ignored; that one has one life to live, and it should be guided by what one likes, not what others think. Accordingly, I enjoy wagering on the ponies, and have for over fifty-four years. Initially in my life my interests were in women, golf, and gambling on the nags in that order. Now, almost seventy-five, women and golf have departed and I am still able to get involved with horseracing.
What bothers me at HRI is that turf writers and commentators do not discuss relevant issues, while Thoroughbred racing is in rapid decline. Where has the commentary been on the McKensey (sp) report, the Ontario report from the government, and Governor Cuomo’s obtaining control of NYRA (go
Cuomo)?
Where is the discussion on why racetracks have got to stop relying on slot revenue for survival; why purses are way out-of-whack; that racetracks must survive without casino dole; that a handful of stake races involving the usual suspects are a drag on racetrack profits and do nothing to create new bettors. Where, where, where? It is hopeless, as I have written numerous times at HRI.
It is up to turf writers to challenge the status quo, which would mean ruffling a few feathers, which might mean no more interviews with Pletcher, Baffert, et cetera.
Turf writers have an association; have any of these guys/gals banded together to suggest or complain about anything?
Everyone, turf writer to commentator at this site to me can’t see the forest beyond the lone tree in front of them.
14 Sep 2012 at 11:00 pm | #
To follow the lead of Mr Corrow
#29 What’s up Link Boy? I still don’t read your garbage even though this is your last refuge.
#30 “What bothers me at HRI is that turf writers and commentators do not discuss relevant issues, while Thoroughbred racing is in rapid decline. Where has the commentary been on the McKensey (sp) report, the Ontario report from the government, and Governor Cuomo’s obtaining control of NYRA (go
Cuomo)?”
Couldn’t say it better myself. Though the rapid decline thing has been bouncing around since at least the 1880’s, so I’d probably not go that far. Why do you think I rail at the site owner over his complaints about the price of lemonade?
14 Sep 2012 at 11:01 pm | #
#29: You are using negative adjectives on commentators at this site willfully. Can’t you find, within yourself, a compliment to a commentator?
Stick with your dime supers, and be kind.
Go Cuomo, make NYRA earn their own keep, shut off the casino dole.
14 Sep 2012 at 11:19 pm | #
So now I observe that Mr. Pricci has removed Pricci’s Column from the main slot and regulated it to a left hand column that, I guess, readers will not read.
I dunno, is there a level playing field anywhere anymore?
14 Sep 2012 at 11:33 pm | #
Mea culpa to all you innocents out there. Forgive me for what I have wrought.
You’re right, Al. I did not respond to the poster who called NYRA workers “idiots” who “essentially do nothing.”
That is indeed unfair. In the main, all the downstate personnel and most of the upstate personnel do their level best, and this year they labored under adverse conditions with no one in charge per se.
I’ve known many of these people for all my professional life and never have seen morale this low--understandable when you don’t know whether you’ll have a job when the meet ends.
So, you found the grounds well kept? Really? Guess you didn’t read Paul Moran’s piece at ESPN.com or, is he, like Ed Fountaine and myself, just racing writers to be painted with the same brush because you disagree with me?
Oh, by the way, at noon on the day I purchased my $6 lemonade--or whatever the hell it cost--my St. Johns’ buddy, a former trainer, waited with me to meet two alums we hadn’t seen for over 30 years at the foot of the clubhouse escalator. We decided to take a seat on the benches directly across from the escalator on that portion of the promenade.
We finally sat on the third bench we came across as the first two were unaccaptably FILTHY, which was something Mr. Moran, a dual Eclipse Award winner, mentioned in his ESPN piece.
So apparently, even though you don’t mind overpaying for food and beverage, your standards for acceptable cleanliness are not as strict as mine. But that’s to be expected when you outsource services instead of keeping your own people working.
Have you considered running for high office?
And thanks for the free pub on my Pick 4 analysis for the BRIS folks. You’ll be pleased to know that it went well and we’ve been extended for weekends in NY through HolidayFest and are planning on something more permanent this winter at Gulfstream Park. In all things, you get what you paid for.
In the future let’s try to stay on topic and attack the message, not the messenger. I think that would be far less tedious for all concerned.
Enjoy your evening.
14 Sep 2012 at 11:41 pm | #
WMC, tapped already, it’s only 4:32? But don’t fret, there will be a new Mornling Line post very shortly, working on a two-parter.
I’ll be disappointed if that doesn’t double the amount of invective at least. Can’t wait.
Geez, now we’re knocking Dime Supers? Nothing’s sacred anymore.
15 Sep 2012 at 12:14 am | #
Mr. Pricci: Caught your bud in the second, went across the board. Seems I have developed a nose for when his plodders are going to run.
Sleep confortably tonight, knowing that I think highly of you. Am almost ready to put you on equal footing with Steven Crist who can take a punch, err several punches.
Tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow. There is always a new handicapping system to try, they are endless.
I will do my best to write invective commentary tomorrow.
15 Sep 2012 at 12:19 am | #
Thank you for clarifying, Mr. Pricci. My experience was that grounds maintenance was better this year than last. I reserve tables for a group of players that come annually in the festival tent for the week of the Alabama. While sitting there one of the first days of the week, one of the regulars pointed out to me how people were coming every half hour to empty the trash and clean up around the baskets. Hadn’t really been paying attention so I watched for a while and sure enough, every day it was like that. Much much better than previous years. Wasn’t near the giant piles of trash left behind that one could see if they stayed around til everything emptied out. I don’t doubt though you found some dirty benches, especially in a high traffic area. Can you answer if they were that way overnight? If so, you are right, it should have been taken care of. If not, even you can agree how hard it is to clean up after 20 some thousand on the fly. If you ever go out on the apron early in the morning and watch the carpenters fix every bench that’s been damaged from the day before, you can’t doubt that an effort is being made to keep the place as nice as possible.
Yes, I read Mr. Moran’s piece. I frankly don’t give much credit to anything he says anymore. He’s a very bitter man and looks to lash out at NYRA for anything he can find. Let’s leave that one be though. I also read Mr. Fountaine’s stuff as well. I looked for his $22 quesadilla. It didn’t exist.
Unlike the 2 of them though, you still are a good writer when you talk about the action on the track. You still express joy at what you see. You haven’t gone down the sad spiral of bitterness that does in most every sportswriter out there, especially those in racing, boxing and baseball, all once the biggest games on the block, and I hope you don’t. Maybe that’s another reason I knock you when you go down that road. We have enough bitter old writers around. Whoever told you you are at your best when you are mad doesn’t know what good writing is.
15 Sep 2012 at 02:11 am | #
“Let’s leave that one be though.”
Where, SNA, do you get the unmitigated gall to trash one recognized journalistic talent and criticize the writing ability of a second one—merely because you don’t care for their points of view? Are you in the running for our next ambassador to Egypt?
I have no doubt Messrs. Moran and Pricci will survive your condescending remarks, but once again you’ve disrespected our host—simply because third parties made comments you found offensive, but which you are free to challenge here.
Indeed, SNA, your constant whining and complaining behind the scenes—when your attempts to discredit or deceive were challenged at your own “home” site—finally succeeded in wearing down the owner of that website. Congratulations on being able to use your personal relationships if not insider influence to silence dissent there.
I expect to do just fine with my remaining racing-related discussion options.
15 Sep 2012 at 02:32 am | #
#37
Since my comment about the grass was your ‘favorite’, I’d like to elaborate.
Yes, the backyard is heavily trafficked, but…
I was there on OPENING DAY, and the backyard grass looked thin and unattended; as opposed to inside the walking ring which was lush and luxurious looking.
By the second weekend it was worn out and bare in spots. That’s after just six days.
By the next week it had already become a dust bowl. So much so that a friend of mine who brought a chair didn’t want to sit there because he didn’t want dirt kicked up by every passerby. He didn’t want to eat dust.
Please note that the meet is six and a half weeks long. I wasn’t there the final two weeks, but, could imagine what it must have looked like.
Some care is needed before the meet starts and not just to the areas where the owners mingle.
Maybe NYRA just doesn’t care about the everyday fan and their families or friends. Maybe NYRA wants them to spend $7 weekdays, $11 weekends for a grandstand seat.
15 Sep 2012 at 02:42 am | #
RE #38
Welcome to the newest HRI blogger, known elsewhere as Link Boy. Does he do that over here too? Seems to me Mr Pricci requested us to stay on topic. I’ll respect his request.
Doing so, I also meant to comment on what you said about the morale. There was definitely a pall over things this year which took a lot of the life out of things. Meet’s been over eleven days now and nothing from Albany. Almost a month has passed since the findings of the safety report were to be presented. Can you blame the employees for being nervous when their new bosses perform so well? But they are still going to work and the show is still going on, but if you want a model of how to comp,etely destroy something, we’re seeing it. Of course now that Cuomo seems to be going after Silver and DiNapoli for using state funds for a sexual harassment coverup, he might not be much longer for the office. I seem to recall another governor that went after crooks like them, well in Silver’s case “like” isn’t needed, a few years ago. He didn’t last too long.
15 Sep 2012 at 02:58 am | #
Hey Denny. I was there for the open house and I agree, it was thinner this year than the last few. Also was a lot less rain pre meet this summer, which would explain it pretty well. However by the third week it’s gone no matter what the starting point. Goes even faster if there is heavy rain early in the meet like a couple years ago. One giant mud puddle. Course what you said was no where near as silly as the other guy who seemed to think that the grass could be maintained the whole meet like a perfect lawn. The place gets used hard. It’s the every day fan, family and friends, and a lot of them at that, that chewed the place up. But if you think lack of grass is some sinister plot, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but the only way to maintain a lawn is to stay off the grass, and I’d dare say that would be even less fan friendly than what you claim.
15 Sep 2012 at 03:23 am | #
Al,
No, I don’t think it’s a plot.
But, there is a lack of care. You can’t depend on the weather alone. If it’s unusually dry- water it some. If it floods- improve drainage. Just common sense.
BTW, NYRA,now’s the time to throw down some grass seed - for next year. Think ahead.
Of course when you don’t know who your boss is going to be it’s probably hard to get motivated to do much more than the minimum.
15 Sep 2012 at 03:34 am | #
Well Denny, if grass is your concern, you should be glad to know there are plans to do some major landscaping and expansion of the backyard area because of its popularity. Of course that was before the coming of Cuomo, so who knows what will happen now. It would be a shame if that falls apart as the plans that were despkayed last summer did look quite nice.
15 Sep 2012 at 12:04 pm | #
JRP,
Don’t feel too bad. At least nobody’s demanded to see your birth certificate yet.
15 Sep 2012 at 03:26 pm | #
Dear OTM Al:
With respect to your response regarding “tearing down the fences,” which I posted, and a 5-year old getting kicked in the head, it’s all part of life; wish somebody had kicked me in the head when I was five, I needed it. Darwin said it best: “survival of the fittest.” Back when there were no fences, the backyard was a big meadow, and the grass was plentiful; like amber waves of grain. Of course, you did not have the traffic you have today, but I believe Saratoga was the subject of this article, and indeed they are doing the maintenance/landscaping on the cheap, while charging $600 for a beer. A retard could figure out what is going on. Greed, corruption, and wrongful treatment of the patrons who make this game go. Anybody who defends the NYRA, who has virtually destroyed racing in New York is no friend to the industry. I’m with Denny, how about purchasing about 5,000 pounds of grass seed. Call me, I’ll even sow it for you - I care.
TTT
16 Sep 2012 at 03:46 am | #
Re: #40
Thank you for the welcome, SNA. Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but even I sometimes have issues more pressing than our cyber-skirmishes.
I can see you haven’t lost any technique, though; firing a shot and then trying to appear to be taking the moral high ground by announcing that you’re staying on-topic. I think you improved on that ploy by following your shot at Moran with “leave that one be.”
The answer to your question is “yes.” I do share links to relevant commentary with HRI readers and sometimes include my own take as well. It’s what the internet is all about. I suppose the name of a thoroughbred like “Data Link” would be more appropriate, but in lieu of that, I could name my first horse, “link boy’ once I become the owner of an unnamed 2YO.
For those unfamiliar with SNA’s “refuge,” I was “christened” by one of his fellow Cuomo critics during a period when such commentary appeared to confirm circumstances contrary to his own conclusions. Whether or not that was his actual motivation, it gave SNA the opportunity to use something other than misspelling my nickname to express his displeasure. Of course I’m doing the same thing. It’s just that the words SNA represents to are so fitting, he might have answered to that name at birth. LOL
As you told DennyM that you know of NYRA’s plans for landscaping, SNA, perhaps you’ll share the nature of your relationship with NYRA (and/or its employees/executives) in order to give him, TTT, and other HRI readers some idea of what authority you speak with.
After all, we don’t want anyone’s “a$$ to be gra$$” if it should appear someone spoke with a forked tongue after planting seeds in peoples’ minds rather than at the racetrack.
TTT,
If you’re not planning a nickname change to Saratoga Seed Sower, maybe it could be used for a new Charlie Bradshaw mystery novel.
16 Sep 2012 at 04:22 am | #
Re #46. Interesting request from an individual who blogs at this site who a) does not reveal who he is and b) does not follow terms of service or request of owner of said site.
Mr Tobasco Cat, please cue “Let It Bleed”, Side 2, Song 4.
16 Sep 2012 at 05:53 am | #
Who is Link Boy? Who is SNA? Who is Indulto? Who is OTM Al? Who the heck gives two chits about a namesake given over the web?
I came here for reaction to Mr. Pricci’s part two article “No Lasix for Juveniles? It Can Be Done”
Only one person, Denny M, besides myself commented on this important horseracing issue. The rest became mostly a pissing match and self serving agendas. Maybe the game has taken its toll on the lifetime horseplayer mentally. Maybe we all need to stop and smell the horse manure once in a while.
I guess you can’t always get what you want.
Who is Jimmy Hendrix? Who is Mick Jagger?
I went down to the Chelsea drugstore
To get your prescription filled
I was standing in line with Mr. Jimmy
And man, did he look pretty ill
We decided that we would have a soda
My favorite flavor, cherry red
I sung my song to Mr. Jimmy
Yeah, and he said one word to me, and that was “dead”
I said to him
You can’t always get what you want
You can’t always get what you want
You can’t always get what you want
But if you try sometimes well you just might find
You get what you need?
16 Sep 2012 at 06:32 am | #
What was asked from you, SNA, that has not already been posted publicly at your “refuge?” Why shouldn’t HRI readers also be aware of any credentials (or lack thereof) on which any claims or implications of inside information are based? In any event, you are as entitled/welcome to your privacy as I am to mine. Your “secrets” are safe.
Well, at least your usual appeal to board authority was out in public this time, but I haven’t done anything you haven’t in one direction or another in this thread. I congratulate you on refraining from emotional outbursts insulting my intelligence.
I can only provide opinions and experiences—which I try to make entertaining—and challenge commentary I believe needs challenging as humorously as I can; whether from the media or by commenters at sites like this one. Maybe others don’t think portions of #17, #29, and #37 were out of line, but I do.
Cat,
You must be an ex-shortstop. It’s not always easy to smell the manure in cyberspace, but sometimes you can see it coming! I’ve found it’s better to clear up potentially negative implications early whenever possible.
16 Sep 2012 at 06:39 am | #
Sorry, that was #17, #28, and #37. Freudian slip, no doubt.
16 Sep 2012 at 01:14 pm | #
Dear Indulto:
“Saratoga Seed Sower” would have been an appropriate nickname for me in my younger days; heaven knows I tried, and my offer still stands. They don’t call me Top Turf Teddy for nothing.
TTT
16 Sep 2012 at 02:59 pm | #
Gee Link Boy, you win. I’ll disclose where I got the inside info on the plans for Saratoga. I hope I don’t get in trouble. See they were displayed last summer at the Saratoga City Center for anyone who wanted a look and on many websites as well. I’ll save you the need to post another link
http://www.nyra.com/saratoga/stories/Sep012011b.shtml
See, you didn’t even actually have to be there to know what’s up.
16 Sep 2012 at 09:34 pm | #
Al,
Thanks for the link, but, is it all moot?
16 Sep 2012 at 09:45 pm | #
No idea, Denny. Clearly they did do some initial projects this year with the wifi, the much criticized turf course renovation and some drainage issues that were causing more horse poop to flow into Yaddo than flows out, but the list of projects intended is much longer than that.
17 Sep 2012 at 03:27 pm | #
Hi Mr. Pricci,
In conjunction with moving Saratoga opening day to July 4, I would recommend considering a delay in re-opening Belmont after the Saratoga meet. It seems, at least to this novice eye, that field size the first week or so at September Belmont is small. Perhaps a two week space would allow horses, horse men/women, and bettors a chance to catch their breath!
eric s.
18 Sep 2012 at 10:16 pm | #
I hate to jump into what seems to be three or four guys screaming at each other to get back on topic, the longer Saratoga meeting. I posted previously favoring a five-days-a-week meeting from July 4 to Labor Day but I can see J.P.’s point about a last weekend in Aug. close. School years have changed. They used to start the day after, the week after Labor Day. Now kids and college students go back a week, sometimes two before Labor Day. I know I was told that the reason some concession stands were closed the last week were the college students who worked them had gone back to school. Also you’ll see fewer families the final week for the same reason. For these same reasons, I would not run the Travers the final Saturday, but the week before so that it is “the Midsummer Derby” again, not the “Early Fall Derby.”
19 Sep 2012 at 11:00 pm | #
The $22 quesidilla was on the menu for the clubhouse dining room, along with the $18 Caesar salad (more for shrimp or chicken) and the side of Saratoga chips (with dipping sauce) that cost $8 (potatoes are $1.99 for 5 pounds in the supermarket).
This doesn’t include the $3 per person seating charge.
Prices like this are good if you wnat to keep out the riff-raff, which apparently was very successful, because on many (if not most) weekdays the clubhouse dining room was empty.
19 Sep 2012 at 11:11 pm | #
Interesting, Mr. Fountaine. So you led your column that day citing the price of an item served in an exclusive area that very few fans will ever go into and represented it as if it was the norm. Nice reporting. I had some people check the menu there for me that had seats in there one day, as that is where I suspected could be the only place it was served, but was told it wasn’t on the menu. I will assume they just didn’t see it. Too bad too as I wanted to try it. It was much easier to find the $2 hotdog. They weren’t bad at all.