Where to start? Keith Brackpool, who chairs this august panel, said in effect that it's all right for California tracks to raise their prices, in terms of increased takeout, because racing is such a grand game and has so much to offer. Name me a business that raises prices when business is bad (well, movie theaters, but name me another). If there were an equipment notation for Brackpool, it would read, "blinkers on." Most of the fans in the grandstand these days are customers disguised as empty seats (the late George Kiseda, writing about a pro basketball crowd in Philadelphia, may have used that quip first).
I knew Israel way back when, when he was a newspaper working stiff who knew his craft, did his homework, threw around similes and never dangled a participle that I ever saw. He's made a ton of money, I suppose, as a writer and producer in television, had something to do with the 1984 Olympics, and through a friendship with Arnold Schwarzenegger has landed on some state regulatory boards, including horse racing. At meetings, Israel is an outspoken cuss, not a bad thing. He doesn't flinch at putting Stronach, the owner of Santa Anita, in his place, but often, in matters horse, his naivete shows. At the most recent meeting, halfway through his longwinded version of what racing is and what racing ought to be, someone should have shouted, "Get him re-write."
I wasn't there, but a racing board flack put out many of Israel's comments, as though he was Moses coming down from the mount, a tablet in each hand. I've never seen such wrong-headed thinking crammed into a few paragraphs.
"People often say we're competing with the casinos," Israel said. "I think that's shortsighted and wrong. We're not competing with casinos. We're in the entertainment business. We're competing with the Dodgers and the Giants and the Angels and the Lakers, and we're putting on a show."
If racing isn't competing with casinos, then why are most race tracks eager to be converted into racinos? Short answer: Because the casinos are more popular, and if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Casinos are gambling. Racing is gambling. State lotteries are gambling. They're all after the gambling dollar. In California, if a gambler spends a day at an Indian casino, there's a chance he won't go to a race track the next day. There's even a chance he won't go to a race track ever again. Especially with the the takeout headed toward 30 per cent territory.
"There are some expenses incurred by putting on a show," Israel said. "We need to do a better job of selling the concept that going to a race track and experiencing racing has real entertainment value--that it's something people should be willing to pay for. It is not only (emphasis is Israel's) a gambling experience. It is also a gambling experience."
This kind of fallacious thinking reminds me of the late Bob Strub, who owned Santa Anita before Stronach. An elitist, Strub thought racing was above the other forms of gambling, and he had this cockamamie idea that bets on horses should be called wagers, as though nomenclature would gussy up the process. Strub would have called call girls courtesans. He also didn't like anybody talking about Las Vegas in his presence. Before long, they were handing out Eclipse Awards in Las Vegas.
If you took away the parimutuels from racing, there would be more horses than spectators. My skin crawls when I hear somebody at the Kentucky Derby say, "Who do you like in the 10th (the Derby race)?" or afterwards hear somebody say, "Who won the 10th?" and get, "the four horse," but spit happens. There are no surveys, but I'd wager (or bet) that most of the people who go to the races would rather cash a ticket than see a world record set for six furlongs. Racing should sell itself as a gambling experience most of the time. Any other basic marketing strategy needs to be re-thought.
Israel went on to make what I guess was a pitch for higher salaries for jockeys and trainers. This was the only area where he might have been close to being right. Yes, jockeys take risks, and are not paid commensurately with the dangers they face, more so at the small tracks than the major racing centers. But the time is not right to be paying them more, while the put-upon bettors pick up the tab. At Santa Anita and Hollywood Park, I still see many trainers driving fancy cars. I know of many trainers who have a home near Santa Anita or Hollywood Park, and a second home near Del Mar. This is anecdotal evidence, I know. But let the horsemen ride out the rough times, right along with the rest of us. Don't turn takeout into gouging, as though it's not there already.
Israel also said: "We need to do a better job conveying the message that these are great athletes, this is great entertainment, and you're paying for the experience of betting once you get there, because, frankly, the cost of getting into this ball park (race track) costs virtually nothing. It's a really good deal for the consumer. . . "
Oh, sure, everybody likes to pay for the opportunity to lose money. And most of us do lose, take my word for it. Comparisons with other sports wear me out. A couple goes to the track. They pay to park, maybe even the premium that comes with valet parking. They pay to get in. They pay again for a reserved seat, or tip the maitre'd and his assistant who takes them to the table, if they choose to sit in the Turf Club. They buy a Daily Racing Form, maybe even a tip sheet. They buy a couple of programs. Conservatively, all of that might cost close to $40--before they make their first bet. You go to a baseball game, you pay for parking and your ticket includes the cost of a reserved seat. You might need a scorecard. But other than the concession stand, that's all the expense you will have. Racing tries to drain the customer before he even warms his fanny. Then it picks away at what he or she has left with an exorbitant commission on bets. It's a grand game, all right. So grand that's it's crumbling, before our very eyes.



28 Sep 2010 at 08:53 am | #
Way to go as usual Bill.
Keith Brackpool and David Israel should resign for their comments. Their comments were detrimental to Horse Racing.
I’m hoping the Horseplayer Association comes out with a press release calling for them to resign by Friday.
28 Sep 2010 at 09:14 am | #
Thank you Bill.
You have a way to boil down problems with focus that we all can understand.
I was at that meeting and was shocked how the Chairman and Vice Chairman played to the audience with self serving,wrong comments and downgrading the gaming part which fuels the industry.
99% of the people there are fed from racings takeout..and of course they cheered when they were told they were to get more.
They do not understand how it works. I thought I was in a foreign Country.
Roger Way
28 Sep 2010 at 09:26 am | #
“The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State.”
Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels, Reich Minister of Propaganda
28 Sep 2010 at 10:02 am | #
**********************************************
Bill:
This is a great piece of journalism and right on target!!
You failed to mention that CHRB Chairman Brackpool is such a SUCCESSFUL businessman that his company, CADIZ INC., has lost nearly $80,000,000 in the last 5 years on revenues of about $4,000,000 during the same 5 year period!! How’s that for leadership??
Both Israel and Brackpool are “SHAPIROESQUE” in that they only listen to the racetracks and totally ignore the bettors, owners and horsemen.
Throw both of these clowns out and replace them with boardmembers who will listen to all of the involved parties and make a decision that is in the best interest of CA horseracing.
Thanks for writing this article Bill.
Jerry
28 Sep 2010 at 11:09 am | #
I can’t speak to the expertise of the board members, but they are right about several points you pick out.
Racing should not compete with casinos because racing CAN’T compete with casinos (or lotteries). Just because there is betting on racing does not mean we can make apples to apples comparisons to slots and scratch-offs.
Crusading for lower takeout isn’t going to make racing competitive with other forms of gambling and new fans (or bringing back past fans) are not going to be created with lower bet costs.
New fans will be created not by the prospect of betting less expensively, but by the chance that a world record might occur AND they can legally bet on it. With the quality of racing in California currently, there’s no reason to think great sport will take place on a regular basis.
Fans won’t watch the Dodgers if they stink and they won’t really increase their revenue by lowering ticket costs. If being cheaper led to success, the Clippers would be just as popular as the Lakers. Fans won’t bet on racing in large numbers either just because the takeout is lower, especially if the tracks make up for it with volume and lower quality racing.
Is a dedicated slice of the take the way to incentivize owners to race quality horses in California? Probably not. The best way would be to get into the casino business, but that has its drawbacks too.
The bottom line is the quality must be addressed. California’s history of great racing allowed it to become very expensive (admission etc.). It must return to that tradition to have any chance of surviving in a market saturated with cheaper casinos and other entertainment venues.
That’s what I think these board members were saying. Their ignorance of takeout rates isn’t a flaw. They simply didn’t follow the red herring that takeout is.
28 Sep 2010 at 11:50 am | #
When was the last time you went to a Dodger or Angel’s game. Average cost for a family of 4= $250.00.
And......you can’t make it up by hitting a pick 3.
Fans will go to the races to see big races, great horses. California horse racing needs to get rid of the plastic surfaces and bring better horses into the state.
Plus, I agree with Israel when he says going to race tracks is an event. They have to put on a better show.
See you at the races.
28 Sep 2010 at 12:14 pm | #
#5 Ray Chatworth wrote:
New fans will be created not by the prospect of betting less expensively, but by the chance that a world record might occur AND they can legally bet on it.
______________________
Well we can let the $2 fans bet on potential world record setters. There is nothing wrong with that.
The fact is that the game in California is currently staying afloat thanks to the $20 and $100 per race bettors. If their edge of .05 or .10 are taken away from them, their bankrolls do not grow.
Horse Racing’s most knowledgeable, and dedicated customers either tap out, take their action to another track, or leave for other forms of wagering. These are the three options that will materialize as soon as the takeouts become a reality. That much is certain.
If you want racing fans to “have fun” at the racetrack you must give them a realistic chance to win money over the long haul. Raising takeout rates eliminates that possibility.
PS: Thanks to Mr. Christine for this no-holds barred commentary. As for the rest of the west coast media, your silence
is deafening.
28 Sep 2010 at 12:14 pm | #
Jeff(post 6),
The problem with Israel’s comments ‘going to the races is an event’ is that its not an event for most people. Most serious bettors and serious racing fans have seen thousands if not tens of thousands of races. For them, the novelty has worn off, they’re not ever attending the races to see the beauty of the thoroughbred and treat it like an exciting NFL game (for example). They’re going for one reason, to try and win money.
There is a very small percentage of newbies who show up at the races on big days, like an opening day at Santa Anita, for example. But, on the dreary Wednesday afternoons, with 59 total horses entered, there’s probably not one new fan who’s there just to see the beauty of an ‘event’. Every single person who’s there is a hard core regular who cares about one thing, betting.
I think that larger fields and more quality racing will increase handle somewhat, but that’s only if takeout levels remain the same. If you have to bilk your hard core customers out of 30 million in order to put on that better show, it defeats the purpose. You may as well keep takeout rates the same. These dummies actually think that they’ve found a way to get a ‘free 30 million’ in extra takeout and everything else will remain status quo.
Its very ironic (don’t cha think?) that they are willing to alienate hard core customers who bet decent money in order to attact new customers, who bet much less (if anything at all) and attend the races once every couple months.
I guess they don’t realize that most successful businesses got there because of word of mouth. Right now, racing’s fanbase is not going to ‘recruit’ new players into this game, i can’t imagine there’s one current horseplayer telling a non horseplayer, “hey, racing is a great game and you get a fair shake for your money, they treat you great, its a value-laden experience, etc.”
I know personally i would never try and convince anyone to become a racing fan...well, that is if i wanted to remain friends with that person.
28 Sep 2010 at 12:19 pm | #
These foolish comments by CHRB members (or should I say “Tools") along with the takeout hike make me feel like going outside and keying my own car.
28 Sep 2010 at 12:34 pm | #
Yes, there is a (very) small core of us who are dedicated horseplayers who consider the sport something special. But there aren’t enough of us to support the game for half an hour, which is why you need the basic gamblers to sustain racing. And the basic gambler always gravitates to the fastest, most simpleminded form of action, which is why the one-armed bandits sit at the top of the gambling food chain. When are racing officials going to see what’s so obvious?
28 Sep 2010 at 01:00 pm | #
Mr C,
Thanks for sharing this. On chat boards, in talks with gambling people, and looking at some of the same marketing/gambling plans this industry itself paid for, most agree with you.
Real businessmen know that the market they have is the market they have.
I am sure McDonald’s would love to have the sushi market, but a Mcsushi is not coming any time soon, because it would fail.
In racing we constantly long for either 1) The old days when people came to the track or 2) Our love for the sport to be considered the “way it is” with the general public.
Neither are happening. We need people who understand that in charge and making decisions, not those whom prescribe to this emotional theory.
Fact pays the bills, and fact-based thinking assures that they are paid. Anything else is wishful thinking.
PTP
28 Sep 2010 at 01:01 pm | #
If the racetracks were given the license to operate slots on their own at their facility, this would solve the problem. The way it is set up now, the casinos are always at odds with the horse people, and a house divided cannot stand. So simple a solution which would be so difficult to accomplish.
28 Sep 2010 at 02:48 pm | #
Racing in California, like California itself, is in secular decline.
The dysfunction of the CHRB is symptomatic of the dysfunction of the State of California.
Please see David Brooks in today’s New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/opinion/28brooks.html
28 Sep 2010 at 03:24 pm | #
Jeff and Ray, thanks for the laughs. If California racing ceases to exist in the near future, you guys could become stand up comics.
28 Sep 2010 at 03:49 pm | #
Another gem from Bill C.
Spot-on and perfectly targeted. I used to live in California and go to the track almost daily. Aside from a few social outings where drinks, lunch and conversation were the main event, cashing some nice bets was the main event. Sure I saw Longden’s last race as well as Shoemaker’s and those were memorable occasions. But, for those other thousands of visits it was the action that kept me coming back. Ask me about the horses that were running on the day that I hit my first Pick-6 and I don’t have a clue. But, I can tell you that it was $19K and we raised a lot of hell that night.
Today I no longer live in California and the only thing that I can tell you about horse racing there is that it is in the toilet. And, based on the information gleaned from CHRB press releases so are the heads of the people who are running it.
28 Sep 2010 at 03:57 pm | #
Luigi Giovanni???
Did you make that name up??
I’ll have an order of spaghetti and meatballs and a veal parmagania hero!!
Luigi Giovannni--lol
28 Sep 2010 at 04:52 pm | #
Congratulations, Bill. You hit it right on the nose. Now is the time for all of us to pull together and take action. I feel we’ve been used and abused for way too long now. We can start by informing the other 98% or more of the remaining horseplayers, of what is taking place. If we all do this, they will definitely feel the impact. Personally, I know at least 80-100 horseplayers from all levels. They’re already being informed. Imagine if we all do this! Yes, we can make the difference.
Turkoman
28 Sep 2010 at 05:17 pm | #
The heck with slots, give the California racetracks the ability to take sports bets. How busy do you think Hollywood Park would be this Saturday and Sunday if one could bet on the football games?
28 Sep 2010 at 05:49 pm | #
Mr. Christine: Have you incurred an epiphany? I had to read your commentary several times, and pinch myself. Quoting you, “Casinos are gambling. Racing is gambling. If you took away the pari-mutuel from racing, there would be more horses than spectators. Most of the people who go to the races would rather cash a ticket than see a world record set. Racing should sell itself as a gambling experience.”
You have been reading my commentary at this website. Can I sue you for plagiarism?
It appears that Mr. Christine finally gets it, after all these years. Now if only Mr. Pricci, Mr. Zast, and all the other turf writers out there would wake up and promote racing for what it is: a gambling option to casino and other gambling - forget the so-called ‘star’, and the trainer who rode in on him/her.
28 Sep 2010 at 06:07 pm | #
Mr. Christine, although I generaly agree with you and love what you write, I can tell you that the response “Let the Horseman Pay” is most definatly the very wrong answer. I have spent my life in horse racing, and I have seen many,many millionairs come into and go out pretty much flat broke, but I sure do not recall very many who actualy became a millionaire from racing. I am in total agreement with you on the takeout, and sympathize wholeheartedly. These people apparently have not read The Jockey Club Reports Of Mares bred, since California has only a foal crop estimate of roughly 1,800 for 2009 in it. There will be no need to raise takeout as there will be nothing to take it from. This State has lost more than 50% of its broodmare population alone, not counting stallions or people who claimed to run here. Jockeys dont get paid enough, no truer words were ever spoken, but by the same token no trainer will run a horse in a “handicap” race any longer either, I guess most dont care that same said horse totes 160 lbs around the track every morning on a daily basis. I have come to one conclusion about California, it is a crazy place (no, I am not from here) Jockeys cant eat, horses cant train, trainers cant train, or some cant, and I wont even get into the fact that we vore on who we like for Broodmare of the Year here but might as well of shaken dice as to wether or not we breed for dirt, turf, plastic, rubber or not at all. I guess Not AT ALL would win hands down since lately we have had entire FARMS bail out of this State!
28 Sep 2010 at 07:46 pm | #
I strongly disagree. The new CHRB is doing a fine job of jump starting Ca. racing. The new increase in take out goes solely to purses. We need those purses to keep owners in the game and trainers and jockeys from leaving the state. No horses, no racing. Works both ways. Sure, you can bet football but to make $100, you have to bet a $100. The opportunity to turn a little money into a lot of money only exists in racing. I don’t believe we don’t need casinos to survive. If we have quality horses running in Ca. we will survive. Better purses brings better horses, brings better racing… A return to dirt at Santa Anita is a huge plus, too. Brackpool and Israel are getting things done quickly. Racing IS entertainment AND a gamble. Why do thousands of fans show up to watch great horses like Zenyatta? They want to be entertained. By nature, people want to see greatness in competition. The new TOC and CTT boards also have very strong leadership. Things are starting to come together now in Ca. Finally, we have some positive momentum and solid leadership.
28 Sep 2010 at 07:59 pm | #
In my humble opinion the first priority from any raise in takeout should have been allocated to fans in the form of free general admission, free general parking, and free basic programs and form data. Any remainder could have been used to enhance purses. If you put the fans on an equal basis with those who visit casinos, you would get the bump in handle that would eventually lead to higher purses.
Frankly speaking, rich people who would like their picture taken are as common as cockroaches, but they do want someone to see them pick up the trophies.
28 Sep 2010 at 08:06 pm | #
Bob, you’re one of my all time favorites but you have this one totally wrong.
Quite a few Horseplayers have supported California Racing for decades and deserve better. Steamrolling over us every time it’s convenient is B.S.
On a typical Saturday in California there will be over 50 high takeout exotic wagers during the day. Can you tell me why the CHRB, the CTT, and the TOC can’t give Horseplayers one (1) low takeout bet on any given card? Yes Bob, just one! When you can answer that question you will know why Horseplayers and clear thinking people have had enough.
It’s not only about you Bob, or the TOC, or the CHRB, or the CTT. C’mon Bob, think just a little more about this one.
Thanks
28 Sep 2010 at 08:10 pm | #
Many good points in this article. If somebody only went to the races once a year, then it truly would be an “entertainment” experience. The takeout wouldn’t matter that much. How many reading this article only play the races once a year? Fairplex held a matchrace recently between Pedroza and Flores. The odds on the horses? 2-5 and 4-5 in a two-horse race. Now, if you really needed to bet let’s say $10 on either horse, why not yell out in the grandstand, “I like Pedroza’s horse for $10! Who likes Flores?” If somebody takes you up on your offer, you are both risking $10 to win $10. What does the race track pay you? On Flores’ horse, you risk $10 to win $8, on Pedroza’s horse you risk $10 to win $4! That’s how much they are gouging you on a daily basis. Now I play the races frequently, manily on the weekends. Let’s say I went to Santa Anita every Saturday and Sunday. I first pay $5 to park. Then it costs me $5 for admission. Then I can’t play the races with out the Racing Form. That’s another $6. So every time I go it costs me $16 BEFORE I MAKE MY FIRST BET! If i go every weekend, that’s 104 visits a year that would cost me $1,664 BEFORE I MADE MY FIRST BET, THEN I HAVE TO BATTLE A 20% TAKEOUT. HOW DOES ANYBODY BEAT THIS GAME IN THE LONG RUN? There are two distinct entities in this game who don’t make money. The jockeys, trainers, track workers all make money. The losers are the horse owners and the bettors. Now California is pitting the two losers groups against each other. Those who make money aren’t about to give up anything. They say they are raising the takeout “only 2%”. But if the takeout is 20% and they bump it up to 22%, that’s a 10% increase, not a 2% increase! Fuzzy math, I guess. Attention California horse racing: You are not the only game in town anymore. There’s this thing called the internet. Players now have power and the power to communicate and the power to play other things like poker or internet poker or sports betting. Or i could go to the indian casino, where I don’t have to pay $1,664 BEFORE I MAKE MY FIRST BLACKJACK BET, ADMISSION AND PARKING IS FREE! AND I FACE A 5% HOUSE ADVANTAGE. If my money stretches out longer at poker or even slots, i’m more likely to return to those venues. The track taps me our FAST! TO ALL RACETRACK EXECUTIVES, I OFFER YOU THIS CHALLENGE: PLAY THE RACES WITH YOUR OWN HARD-EARNED MONEY FOR ONE MONTH. EACH DAY YOU GO, PAY FOR ADMISSION, PARKING AND A FORM, THEN COME ON THIS FORUM AND REPORT HOW WELL YOU DID. THE NUMBERS WILL SHOCK YOU! IT’S ONLY OBVIOUS THAT THE TAKEOUT INCREASE WILL SPELL THE DOOM OF CALI RACING!
28 Sep 2010 at 08:35 pm | #
Bob Baffert, I strongly disagree with you. the people who want to be entertained don’t lose enough to train one of your horses for a year.
It is all about gambling. And someone can wager half a million on sports during a year and have a much better chance lasting or making money than they can playing horses.
The gamblers are going to have less, bet less often, get pissed off, some will leave, find new things to play, and the horsemen and tracks in California will wind up with a lot less. I give it 6 months and your purse accounts will back to square one, but the track owners of California will be the one’s really hurting from this move.
This is a one to 9 shot.
28 Sep 2010 at 08:38 pm | #
Bob @ 21
The takeout on doubles and exactas increased from 20.68% to 22.68%, an increase of 9.67% The takeout on other exotics increased from 20.68% to 23.68%, an increase of 14.51%. Only in dysfunctional California would the takeout be increased so exorbitantly in the middle of a deep (and what’s expected to be long) recession.
The proponents of this measure are counting on horseplayers not to notice, but horseplayers are starting to pay attention. No horseplayers > no purses > no horses > no racing.
While NJ has some bad takeout percentages, the takeout on the Pick 5 at Monmouth is only 15%. That fact attracts attention.
28 Sep 2010 at 08:38 pm | #
Hopefully this doesn’t happen.
28 Sep 2010 at 08:49 pm | #
What happens when purses go down or training bill goes up? Owners may not notice a 5% drop in purses right away, but over a few months, owners start owning less horses, some start getting out for good, nobody new comes into the game either.
When purses go up, the opposite happens.
Now what is going to happen when bettors get less back?
This isn’t rocket science.
28 Sep 2010 at 08:57 pm | #
Betting in Las Vegas on the California signal will take a major hit when these increases are put into place.
California killed the rebate program in 1998 in Las Vegas and now they are ready kill betting on California racing altogether.
I know a lot of big players in Vegas that will just stop playing California and direct their funds to some of the other 20 or so tracks that are simulcasted into Nevada.
Good luck California racing because you are really going to need it.
28 Sep 2010 at 09:07 pm | #
#21 Bob B. - I admire your work as a trainer, but as a gambler, not so much. It sounds rather self serving for a Trainer to root for higher purses, as long as someone else pays for them.
Customers do not go to the races because of the purse size. They would rather go to make a winning bet. When purses were increased in Ca. by $40 million via SB27 a few years ago, all that happened was an increase in costs of everything horses and caused Ca. to become most expensive to maintain a horse… and the owners bought new cars.
Now we are told if we kick in another $70 million via SB1072 it will solve our problems. Huh..
You are a fine Trainer..keep your day job.
28 Sep 2010 at 09:38 pm | #
Bob,
You have a cost problem in So Cal, and Brackpool et al should concentrate on costs, eg a 150% mark up on Adequan. It bleeds the hell out of every owner out there and when we ask our “thinkers” to do something about it, they throw up their hands.
Higher takeout leads to lower handle, lower handle leads to less for purses, less for purses equals less for horse owners.
It is a vicious circle, and it is killing our sport.
Your board has access to studies which shows what to do - find an optimal takeout rate (here is a hint - EVERY study with people with fancy degrees, who are employed by Steve Wynn and many others - says the optimal point for purses is lower than it currently is.
Higher takeout will hurt you. It will hurt more and more until it is corrected and we put people in charge with the cajones to do the right thing, for horse owners, bettors and the sport.
PTP
28 Sep 2010 at 10:12 pm | #
As a life-long CA player, I am sick and tired of being screwed by the racing establishment and elected & appointed “leaders” here. The players were told a takeout increase for workers compensation insurance was needed, temporary and would boost the horse population. It was not temporary as we are still paying it and getting this lousy product. Why should I play unplayable CA races when I can play other track around the country and the world from my home where I have an advantage? I can play all the races on my ADW account(s) and not be limited to those races determined by track management. I am thisclose to telling the CHRB to stuff their bad management (which ALMOST makes me want Shapiro and Licht back as commissioners) and quit the game here in CA. The tracks, owners, trainers, and the appointed/elected crooks here in CA don’t care about the fans who pay for this game. Get a clue, NOW! This game in CA is just about to join other businesses in leaving the Golden State!
28 Sep 2010 at 10:13 pm | #
Mr Baffert, please direct your attention to my points on post #8 in this thread, i talk about gambling vs entertainment.
Thousands show up to watch Zenyatta because she’s undefeated and shes been marketed well in the so cal region. The problem with using Z as an example to make your point is that there’s only one zenyatta. The other 99.9 percent of the horse races in California are featuring forgettable horses. If the purses go up, there’s still only one Zenyatta and 99.9 percent of the races, even with the higher purses, will still be forgettable races with forgettable horses.
Once the cheering stops for Zenyatta and the other 99.9 percent of the races have to stand on their own 2 feet, they can’t. Raise the purses and guess what, there’s still only one Zenyatta and the other 999 races out of 1,000 are forgettable. People come to see Zenyatta but the other 999 races (per 1,000) are just being staged for gambling purposes only.
Racing had an opportunity to hook thousands or tens of thousands of new fans who would be fans for life if Zenyatta and Rachel would have just found a way to race each other. They never did and they never will. This was a once in a lifetime opportunity to showcase incredible horses and the horse racing industry missed the boat.
For every Rachel or every Z, there are 99.9 percent of the other horses are just random equine athletes, nameless and faceless who run in boring circles. At the end of the day, all that matters to 99.9 percent of the horseplayers is this:
Is the price of the gamble worth the risk?
28 Sep 2010 at 10:28 pm | #
Greg (#32) you might want to check out this blog. There’s an organization called HANA and here’s a blog from their leader Jeff Platt. You are not alone in your frustrations.
http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2010/09/has-time-come.html
28 Sep 2010 at 11:09 pm | #
PTP #31 is correct in that the main issue with ownership in California is not the revenue side of the balance sheet but the cost and expense side of the balance sheet. Unfortunately, the CTT, CHRB, and other organizations refuse to look at ways to reduce training expenses in California for the owners. Instead, they chose to move the ownership “cost” problem to the bettor in California.
28 Sep 2010 at 11:17 pm | #
God help horse racing....Bob, you made more sense than most.
28 Sep 2010 at 11:22 pm | #
There seems to be a large groundswell on the various Internet websites against California racing as a result of this tax increase in the “takeout”. Stillriledup in post 34 posted one link, here are a couple others in case you want to monitor how the “customer” views this tax hike.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75715
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75711
29 Sep 2010 at 12:14 am | #
Don’t totally blame Bob because.............
1) Baffert is getting desperate because he’s FINALLY determined that to train good horses he has to leave CA.
2) He has to be a puppet for the TOC and Zetcher because Zetcher is his most active client and he has little chance to replace guys like Zayat and others who will not race in CA.
3) He has no other options because the CHRB and the tracks want to get rid of quality horses (like Bafferts) and replace them with full fields of Cheap Claimers running for higher than average purses.
Bob is just trying to save his business but he should have been out in front fighting long ago because NOW it is too late to turn things around.
BOYCOTT CALIFORNIA HORSERACING AND SEND THE CHRB AND THE RACTRACKS A LESSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
29 Sep 2010 at 01:07 am | #
The days of horse racing’s being an “entertainment event” instead of a gambling game are long gone. Proof? Maybe 90% of all the money in the pools is bet away from the racing venue.
California’s exacta takeout will soon be among the highest in the nation. Higher takeout means less money gets returned to bettors, so they have less to continue betting with, which reduces churn, which reduces pools. While the average player might not know the takeout rate, he will know he has less money in his pocket.
The problem is much more serious for big bettors, the whales and rebate players who make up an increasing percentage of the handle. Smaller pools combined with high takeouts will drive big bettors to (a) other tracks with better takeouts or (b) offshore bookmakers where no money goes into the pools or (c) out of the game altogether.
Last week I was at Penn National, which features a whopping 31% trifecta takeout. On a Saturday night, the attached casino was packed. You could hardly find signage that there was a racetrack anywhere. There were maybe 1000 players at the track. The handle was pitiful. If you took away the slot subsidy, the track would close tomorrow.
No slots are coming to California tracks. But the takeout keeps rising. Where will this lead? Hint: Nowhere good.
Everybody feels they are the key to the game: Track owners say with no place to race, there’s no game. Breeders say without horses, there’s no game. Owners say if we don’t pay the bills, there’s no game. Trainers say if we don’t train the horses, there’s no game. And so on.
But consider this: If all the California tracks closed tomorrow, California bettors could still gamble on out-of-state tracks. But if all the people who bet on California races disappeared, everyone else would be immediately put out of business.
Somebody might want to tell some folks on the CHRB about this.
29 Sep 2010 at 01:24 am | #
Barry to the rescue.
One of the smartest posts on this subject that i’ve read in a long time. Great stuff.
29 Sep 2010 at 03:36 am | #
I agree with Bob and believe we all need to look at tyhe BIG picture here. When I moved here in 1997 THIS was the place to be and a privlage to run here. This isnt just about the takeout. Its about this CHRB who, in the last few years, has hit every aspect of racing from the true gambler to the average fan, from the small owners who can no longer afford to own a horse here let alone race it, to the largest brreding farms who have also been put out of buisness. The comment of a trainer buying a new car is unfair, when is the last time you saw what a bale of hay costs, or paid the highest Worman’s Comp in the US, paid 20 bucks for a gallop rider per day to 20.00 bucks to pony your horse to the gate. We desperatly need trainers like Mr Baffert, who can atract new fans with high profile horses, heck, I have uncashed win tickewts and a losing one from following Real Quiet at two! It is not just the takeout, the whole system is broken.
29 Sep 2010 at 06:14 am | #
Purses definitely need to increase in order to attract the best horses. Hard to believe anyone would argue with that, but increasing the takeout, which is too high already is not the answer. The game needs to become more “user friendly” in so many ways.
(1)People at the racetrack are treated like degenerate gamblers for the most part; who would want to bring your family there?
(2) Once inside, you are a captive audience, and they overcharge you for food and drink. If they want to make their money on those things, they should buy a sports bar.
(3) When you make a substantial hit, the IRS is there to harass you for what they believe is their cut. A racetrack should be like a church when it comes to taxes; a sanctuary. They should not ask, and we should not have to tell.
(4) Instead of Big Brother stealing our money, they should concentrate their attention on the offshore entities such as “Bogdog,” where thousands of dollars are being lost. They offer SUBSTANTIAL rebates to customers. This is a big issue.
(5) I’m not knowledgeable regarding the casino/track relationship, but it seems to be that the tracks have sold out for a “bowl of porridge”; where there is such a relationship, a much larger portion of the slot revenue needs to go to purse money. Once bad deals are made, it is hard to get them reversed.
There have been so many bad decisions made by so many greedy entities, that do not care about horse racing, only their stinking short-term “bottom line,” with no vision for the long term.
Never thought I’d see the day that a card at an NYRA track would mirror an average day at Penn National. This is not the business I chose so long ago.
TTT
29 Sep 2010 at 06:48 am | #
Seriously Bob, it’s blatantly obvious where your bread is buttered. Football parlays provide the bet a little, win a lot option you say is unique to racing.
Lifelong gamblers will stay, but can’t sustain the sport themselves.
New racing fans might enjoy the big occasion, and placed a few $2 bets, but they aren’t enough to sustain the sport either. They are also the most costly to acquire, because you have to throw a very wide net to capture them.
The key is bringing back and retaining those gamblers who have been interested in racing and have fallen away. If it was a sportsbook or eBay, they’d be throwing them free entry vouchers, refer-a-friend bonuses and all sorts of promotions designed to recapture their interest and hang on to them. To retain or re-activate a customer costs as little as 1/4 of the acquisition cost of a nwe customer. You know these people like racing already, so find the way to reconnect. Stop treating it as a one-size-fits-all experience and go after these guys with focused campaigns addressing why they left in the first place.
29 Sep 2010 at 07:13 am | #
CA is odds-on to be gone in 3-5 years. Only carryovers and Zenyatta have kept it alive for the last 5. Overwhelmingly incompetent leadership, indolent trainers and guardians of the players who have not a clue have hung themselves. A few trainers with skill and integrity, 2 excellent race callers, an outstanding gate crew and some wonderful horses are all that have earned the right to survive.
29 Sep 2010 at 08:40 am | #
#39 Barry Meadow writes:
No slots are coming to California tracks. But the takeout keeps rising. Where will this lead? Hint: Nowhere good.
--------------------------------
Are we 101% sure that there is no loophole for slots?
California racing to be run into the ground year after year without exercising diligence and proper consultation with the experts reminds me of the neglected Aqueduct racetrack for 9 years after slots were approved in New York.
Until there was intense media pressure to get the lawmakers in Albany to get it done, this was not a high priority. In the same vein, the west coast media members had been largely mum (except for Art Wilson) on the topic of synthetics racing.
California media must explain to the public what the takeout increases mean. They can start with the failure of the Los Alamitos takeout increase,
and how this “experiment” was not curtailed.
29 Sep 2010 at 08:42 am | #
The sooner Hollywood Park closes, the better chance horse racing has to survive in SoCal if the other racetracks create a stable racing structure to recapture the fan. The management of the place did the same thing with Bay Meadows they are doing with the current Hollywood Park, and its impossible to engage a customer and make them a long term fan of racing.
An example, last meet Hollywood Park was open on Wednesday day, closed Thursday, opened Friday night. For the meet starting this week, they are closed on Wednesdays, running Thursday night, and then running this Friday day. How do you create a fan with this instability? They make it too difficult to know when the place is open, when it is running.
I’m sure this will work best for Hollywood Park in the short term 2-3 year timeframe, but its no way to create a horse racing fan for the long term and that is one thing the CHRB should be concerned about. Hollywood Park doesn’t care to look long term because they will be developed eventually. But the other tracks in SoCal, the CHRB, and trainers should care. Its their client base long term.
29 Sep 2010 at 09:14 am | #
Great post Bill --
Here are my thoughts.
And the beat goes on..
To David Israel - It’s all about the GAMBLING, stupid.
I have been fighting the takeout war for over a decade now. But no matter how many panels or boards are convened (and I’ve been on countless ones) nothing good will happen unless players take revolutionary action.
Most executives in the industry, along with the bureaucrats and politicans they pander to, have no interest in changing the status quo, except for the worse.
They will only change if on their collective deathbeds of if forced to by concerted action by players.
Double digit decreases in handle and foal crops have led to a depression-like environment.
Liquidity has dried up. There is too much racing and more importantly, too many betting options. The Monmouth experimeent of “less is more” did not go far enough. Even with $85,000 NW1 purses, I could not bet serious money as there wasn’t good liquidity, even in the win pool.
Just this past Sunday, I bet a horse (Ontothenextone) in the 12th race who was 2/1 as they neared the gate. The next flash he was 6/5 and ended up paying $3.80. As a professional player, I cannot accept that.
Even more than quality racing, serious, value-oriented players want to have some sense of the price they are going to get. That’s why I limit most of my play to the major New York and California tracks, CD and KEE (not as good liquidity but good takeout rates) and special event days at other tracks where pools rate to be sizable.
Yo don’t need exactas, quinellas, trifectas, supefectas and daily doubles on every race in today’s environment. All these betting options only serve to dilute the money in any individual pool. It might be OK for the $2 bettor, but for the hardcore, (the 5% of us who account for over 90% of handle, it’s a joke.
If you only had two trifectas and one superfecta a day per track, those pools would be bulging and the other races would have bigger WPS and exacta pools.
If you’re a tri or super specialist, you could play all of them at all tracks to get your fix. And, you wouldn’t have to worry about betting a $10 super and knocking your price in half.
There are too many racing dates, too many races, too many betting options, and way too many idiots in the industry who failed Economics 101.
I have several ideas on how WE CAN CHANGE ALL OF THIS. I will be sharing them with the HANA board and welcome any of your ideas.
If the social media can get Betty White to host Saturday Night Live, we oughta be able to get the take to resaonable levels and spruce up liquidity.
The time for conventional warfare has come and gone.
Join the Revolution.
Cary Fotias
Declaration of Horseplayer Independence
When in the course of thoroughbred events, it becomes necessary for horseplayers to dissolve the financial bands which have connected them to insensitive racetrack owners and short-sighted state legislatures, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the rightful station to which they are entitled, they should declare the causes which impel them to action.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all horseplayers are endowed with certain unalienable rights, that among these are market-driven takeout rates, sterner drug policies, the integrity of the wagering pools and the embracing of new technologies that could make it easy to bet on any race, anywhere, at anytime.
29 Sep 2010 at 09:16 am | #
I finally agree with you Bill, except for you thinking the horseman make a lot of money.Very few live any better than hand to mouth.
29 Sep 2010 at 09:57 am | #
Brackpool and Israel are not that far off base. Racing does not compete with major league sports in CA or anywhere else, but this is the correct vision that it can. This is the big thinking that the game needs more of. It is indeed a sport and grand entertainment. It is also a gambling option that should compete with slots, poker, lottery and gaming. That’s very fertile material to work with from a marketing perspective.
The takeout issue should have been handled differently though. A small but important segment of customers watch the issue of pricing closely. Leading them to anger and frustration is just bad business.
Racing needs to be transparent and communicate with and learn from the fans, horseplayers, and owners. NASCAR maintains a 12,000 member “NASCAR Fan Council” that it uses to conduct research into customer attitudes, needs, and preferences to improve the sport. There is a waiting list to become a member. Never has racing needed a central governance more than it does now.
29 Sep 2010 at 10:01 am | #
HorseRaceInsider will delete any comment that engages in personal attacks directed at anyone, uses foul language, or one made by an imposter using another’s name to express an opinion or comment.
HRI will not, however, edit or discourage those who, with intellectual honesty, disagree with HRI staffers or other readers. We also will not, as is done on some racing sites, edit disagreeable or negative commentary in the interests of commerce.
29 Sep 2010 at 10:02 am | #
Bob, you are a wonderful trainer, have a dry sense of humor, and you could care less about the racing fan’s wallet. Your analagy about betting $100 to win $100 on a football game is wrong. Here are the true odds: If you bet $100 on a football team against the pointspread (the most popular way of betting on football), you are realliy betting on an even money shot. Your bet has a 50% chance of winning. The payoff: you risk $100 and win $91 if you win. At the track if you wager on a hors who has exactly 50% of the win pool bet on him, theoritaclly a even money shot, what does the track pay you? If you bet $100, you win only $60! You say you can’t win big bets like the pick-6 or trifecta in football betting. False! Have you ever heard of a 10-team parlay? But even Pick-6 winners who win $100,000 or more, more than likely have invested much more than that before they scored. Then the IRS takes a cut. So if the Pick-6 pool was $100,000, the take reduces it to $75,000, then the IRS takes it’s cut, if you had the only winning ticket, you probably take home maybe $60,000 out of a $100,000 pool. I think keno odds are better! DOES ANYBODY BEAT THIS GAME IN THE LONG RUN?
29 Sep 2010 at 10:04 am | #
HorseRaceInsider will delete any comment that engages in personal attacks directed at anyone, uses foul language, or one made by an imposter using another’s name to express an opinion or comment.
HRI will not, however, edit or discourage those who, with intellectual honesty, disagree with HRI staffers or other readers. We also will not, as is done on some racing sites, edit disagreeable or negative commentary in the interests of commerce.
29 Sep 2010 at 10:19 am | #
#49 Dan…
“The takeout issue should have been handled differently though. A small but important segment of customers watch the issue of pricing closely. Leading them to anger and frustration is just bad business.
Racing needs to be transparent and communicate with and learn from the fans.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan and others, If racing wanted to be upfront and “transparent” and when they insist that customers do not know or care about the takeout, try this simple example:
The customers can not tell you about the takeout numbers because it is done from behind the windows and the customers are kept in the blind, plus there is not one takeout number, there are multiple tiers and then they must be blended.
The racing managers refuse to talk or accept a simple solution: print the takeout on every ticket sold, like you print the calories on a can of corn...call it the truth in wagering law.
I think you would find that customers do care,when one ticket says 15% takeout and the next ticket says 24% takeout...they would question the rational to the point it would drive takeout down.
If transparency allowed the customers to know how much they are paying, it would be a nightmare for the racing managers.
That is why transparency in racing is in name only
rwwupl
29 Sep 2010 at 10:27 am | #
OK, here we go again with the thread spoilers, #5o and# 52 are imposter posters in an effort to kill the thread with junk, because they have no answers.
I am Roger Way and I did not post #50.
Lester or Igeteven tells me via telephone he did not post #52
Please, take a hike.
29 Sep 2010 at 10:28 am | #
Dan said “The takeout issue should have been handled differently though. A small but important segment of customers watch the issue of pricing closely. Leading them to anger and frustration is just bad business.”
Horseplayer anger isn’t about the small segment pissed off over a pricing change. It is about the growth of the game. Increase takeout means less value for everyone. Anyone who comes close to breaking even at betting wants more Horseplayers because it increases the chances of becoming a winner. This takeout hike kills growth.
Message 50, get a life troll. How old are you? 9.
29 Sep 2010 at 11:01 am | #
The person who is saying that it is me, is a lover of my former girlfriend and he is try to get me upset because my girlfriend dump him for being a a lair and a degenerated human being,
He was let out of the state mental hospital for being a drug user on coke and heroin.
So believe what you want, however, just let him write and do his thing.
any questions, please e mail me
29 Sep 2010 at 11:29 am | #
Mr. Fotias. Your sentiments are completely in line with mine; must be the Greek blood. I’m all for the revolution; where do I report for duty! Love the part about “embracing new technologies.” However, the technologies they need to embrace are not new anymore. The software has long existed to give instantaneous up-to-the-second odds at any facility (that does not change the size of the pool, but without it, all you have is a bait and switch situation), but they are too cheap to implement it; same with the Trakus system, what a fantastic handicapping tool, but unless all tracks have it, the form can’t beging to print the information. Would also suggest a slight variation to your Declaration, “easy to bet, view and analyze any race, anywhere, at any time.” Of course, these problems, although extremely important, are secondary to the financial state of the game, which is the priority, and must be corrected. I’m not smart enough to begin to know how to fix it, but I do believe that the aggregate affect of all the little problems, does play a role in the overall state of racing, of which there are hundreds (forgive me if I’ve strayed off the point).
29 Sep 2010 at 11:41 am | #
Gary Fortias: Quoting you, “We do not need exactas, trifectas, quinellas, supers, and daily doubles on every race in today’s environment. It might be okay for the $2 bettor, but for the hardcore (the 5% of us who account for over 90% of handle, it’s a joke.”
So, what your suggesting is that Thoroughbred racing should eliminate the various wagering options so that pools become bigger so that you, and your 5% of fellow so-called whales, can send it in without the odds dropping significantly; in other words, your buying the pool won’t be so noticable. Well, I am a hardcore bettor of over fifty years, and slightly greater than a $2 bettor; and, I look forward every day to wagering on rolling doubles, pick threes, et cetera. And, I do appreciate it, repeat do appreciate it, when you and your ilk dump money on a horse in a race I am involved in and it runs up the track, as it does often - thank you for increasing the odds on the other horses!
According to you, all attention should be given to you whales because you characters bet the most and provide the ADW hub or racetrack with the most income. Seems, according to you, that the ideal racetrack should build a dozen or so private rooms overlooking the racetrack, eliminate the grand stand and club house, fire all but a couple chefs and a couple tellers, and sell the parking lot land. The $2 dollar bettor is not needed or wanted.
29 Sep 2010 at 12:28 pm | #
Fairplex handle is down 8.17%.
http://www.drf.com/news/handle-declines-817-meeting
29 Sep 2010 at 12:28 pm | #
I have heard Mr. Fotias speak on the subject of racing at length, and believe that the things he proposes will only inure to the benefit of the fellow with the two-dollar bill, to portray his beliefs in any other light is just wrong.
29 Sep 2010 at 12:31 pm | #
Cary,
Great post, but i do disagree with you on one thing. I think the betting menu should stay the same. I could see canning the rolling DD (because there’s a rolling pick 3) and canning the Quinellas, but as far as the other bets go, i like them even though they dilute the other pools and here’s why.
Because i can adjust my play accordingly to pool size and spread my money around so that i don’t crush my own price. Also, lets say i’m sitting bleary eyed handicapping that day’s card at 5am and i sniff out a 20-1 morning line horse who is the 3rd best horse in the race. He can’t beat my top 2 picks, but he can beat the rest. Under your reign, there would be no trifecta for me to take advantage of the knowledge i gleaned at the rooster hour. I want to be able to punch a huge triple 1 and 2 with 1 and 2 with 3 and be able to stick my longshot in the 3rd spot and get paid for my opinion.
There are a lot more opinions than just win. Also, with less betting pools, the smarter money, by definition, will congregate in certain pools....with tons of different options, the expert money will have to be spread out and thus, gives the smaller guy a chance for some value. The smaller guy can pick and choose his pool and find an edge as opposed to being forced into certain pools for lack of options.
I like the expanded betting menu, we can’t put the genie back in the bottle.
29 Sep 2010 at 12:33 pm | #
HorseRaceInsider will delete any comment that engages in personal attacks directed at anyone, uses foul language, or one made by an imposter using another’s name to express an opinion or comment.
29 Sep 2010 at 02:58 pm | #
Poster #54 is an imposter who needs to grow up. I am Roger and I detest people who post in my name. Expect a law suite served by my BFF Lester. I wanted to go to the CHRB meeting in October at Santa Anita but now that it’s at Hollywood, Hollywood is not oxygen tank friendly, so I won’t go :(
Their loss
Roger
29 Sep 2010 at 05:02 pm | #
A few observations..
-Mr. Christine wasn’t at the CHRB meeting, yet is content to print and base his commentary on hearsay. Uh.. okay.
-Racing is a mutually symbiotic enterprise. It needs horses, owners, gamblers, trainers, jockeys and a track. Neither is more important than the either as the absence of one makes all irrelevant. Self-grandiosity, on any level, needs to stop.
--Even with the increase in takeout California still has one of the lowest averages in the country. That’s a fact. So, if gamblers want to take their action elsewhere they’ll be giving up at least as much, if not more.
--You don’t have to bet every race. If there’s no value (i.e. match race with a 4-5 and a 2-5 shot), don’t play.
--The $2 bettor is an essential part of the equation. Their patronage generates millions of dollars in the industry. Whether it be a group of college kids or a family spending the day at the track they shouldn’t be minized. There’s also the possibility some of those folks will become repeat customers. Uou see it as a “business opportunity”, others see it as entertainment. They’re not wrong. Neither are you.
--Jerry Jamgotchian is a hypocrite of the first order. If he wants to boycott California racing, this Saturday would be a great place to start. If he didn’t spend so much money suing anyone and everyone who denies him his way, maybe he could pay his horse bills in timely fashion.
--Everyone is up in arms over takeout. Are you also infuriated by the disparity in taxation between race tracks and casinos? Why are tracks bound by archaic, stifling tax laws? Tracks pay their fair share of federal and state taxes. Why don’t the Native American casinos? Maybe, you should direct some of your anger and energy to your local lawmakers.
--Of course Bob Baffert’s bread is buttered with purse earnings. Same as yours is buttered with gambling earnings. It wouldnt be a surprise to learn he doesn’t care about your wallet any more than you care about his. I would be surprised, however, to learn he didn’t have more than a passing concern about every spoke in the wheel that turns racing. It’s called making a living. We all have to do it.
--If gamblers aren’t complaining about takeout, they’re complaining (rightfully so) about consistently bad cards. Short field and cheaper claimers. The thing that comes to mind is, put up or shut up. Either put up with the diminishing quality and quantity of horses or shut up when someone tries to do something to change it.
--Likewise, whenever someone brings a perspective to the table that differs from yours, don’t take it as a threat to your interest in racing. It’s nothing personal. If David Israel sees entertainment potential in racing, let him. We need vision, fresh ideas, positive energy and warm bodies. Appealing to the casual fan isn’t going to be a detriment to you. Really. It isn’t .
--Stop crying wolf. If you’re sick of playing California tracks, stop. It’s quick and painless. As many of you point out, you have a number of different gambling opportunities. Take advantage of them. At least those of us who want to see racing in the Golden State survive, make that thrive, will know where we stand in terms of gamblers.
--Gambling is not free. Anywhere. You pay the take out, the casino, or the vig. You can hit the jackpot on a carefully calibrated slot machine or hit the lottery, but short of those two things, nothing offers the home run potential that racing does. You can win $60 on a $100 bet with an even money favorite or you can turn that same bet in to $1000 with a 10-1 shot. Favorites lose more than they win. Every single day there’s racing you have that opportunity. The better handicapper you are, the better your chances. Betting the ponies successfully requires both luck and skill. Also, Uncle Sam wants his fair share of your nickel machine jackpot or Mega Millions payday. If you’re under the impression the IRS fairy only visits racetracks, you’ve got bigger problems than the takeout.
--If the government decided to ban gambling on horse racing, every single one of you would be storming the state house doors. Don’t take it for granted.
All that said,
--I’m a gambler.
--Racetracks, in general, could care less about you or me. Do you know why you pay $10 to park, $5 to get in, $2 for a program and $15 for a dried out hotdot and lukewarm beer (or in Del Mar’s case $15 for a watered down margarita)? For the simple fact it’s all theirs to keep. They have to split handle with the horsemen, but admissions and concessions are theirs and theirs alone. Churchill and Del Mar are the worst offenders. The former concerned only with two days that revolve around the first Saturday in May and Del Mar for the 7 week beach party. It makes me both chuckle and regurgitate when I read how Del Mar has “increased attendance”.. Blah blah blah. That’s right. Their B rate concerts burn up the turn stiles, but do absolutely nothing for racing. Last I checked, Del Mar Racetrack is just that. A racetrack. Not a concert hall or amphitheater. A racetrack. Where horses race and people go to gamble on and be entertained by them.
--If there’s a shot in hell for us, the gamblers, to be seen as something more than a necessary evil, we have to stop stomping our feet and name calling like four year olds. Take your message to the board room, not the chat room. Peacefully and respectfully reach out to racetrack owners and take your place at all the alphabet soup meetings. If the folks in charge won’t listen, do your talking with your wallets. An organized, sustained boycott at the windows would surely get their attention.
29 Sep 2010 at 05:24 pm | #
“--Even with the increase in takeout California still has one of the lowest averages in the country. That’s a fact. So, if gamblers want to take their action elsewhere they’ll be giving up at least as much, if not more.”
Wrong on the lowest average takeout average. The fact is they will be on the high side 60th out of 69 on exactors and doubles. This will wind up putting them somewhere in the middle amongst all tracks when it comes to takeout average I believe
Secondly, for the players who receive rebates (which is generally anyone who bets big or even medium size players who can receive them), California distribution fees are also on the high side, and I expect them to go up with this hike. So no, these horseplayers are giving a lot more on California racing once this hike is in place.
29 Sep 2010 at 05:37 pm | #
Richard H-
The CHRB has an official review of the meeting.
http://www.chrb.ca.gov/press_releases/2010_09_25_press_release.pdf
I do not think you will find any differences in that review than Bill wrote about...except Bill offered an opinion of it…
---------------------------------------------------
Excerpt:
“Vice Chairman Israel said regarding the takeout increase and the issue of price, “People often say we are competing with the casinos. I think that’s shortsighted and wrong. We’re not competing with casinos. We’re in the entertainment business. We’re competing with the Dodgers and the Giants and the Angels and the Lakers and we’re putting on a show. There are some expenses incurred by putting on a show. We need to do a better job of selling the concept that going to the racetrack and experiencing racing has real entertainment value – that it’s something people should be willing to pay for. It is not only a gambling experience. It is also a gambling experience. And I think the pricing reflects the concept that the people who put on the show need to be compensated for putting on the show. Jockeys are great athletes. They need to be paid. The trainers are great, essentially, coaches. They need to be paid. Frankly, jockeys and trainers make the kind of money that ballplayers and managers and coaches used to make 40 years ago. They are kind of working class athletic heroes. We need to do a better job conveying the message that these are great athletes, this is great entertainment, and you’re paying for the experience of betting once you get there because, frankly, the cost getting into this ballpark (a racetrack) costs virtually nothing. It’s a really good deal for the consumer and I think part of what this bill accomplishes is it recognizes that fact. These people need to be compensated and we need to take care of them.”
------------------------------------------------
I am glad Bill Christine offered his opinion.it is a breath of fresh air, and he is right.
Most business think taking care of the customer is important too, and that is a primary mission of the CHRB.
29 Sep 2010 at 06:06 pm | #
Even brainwashed communist take-what-they-give you and count your blessing morons are entitled to their opinions. I for one still believe in freedom of speech. What I find hypocritical is when individuals angrily ridicule the honest opinions of others in a forum such as this, telling them they should stop stomping their feet, then stating their own adverse opinions in a vitriolic filabuster. My response to individuals who make ridiculous statements such as “If you’re sick of playing California tracks, stop. It’s quick and painless,” I say if you’re sick of the opinions in these types of forums and can’t be civil and respectful of others, stop visiting them, it’s quick and painless; talk about grandiose and arrogant!
29 Sep 2010 at 06:39 pm | #
Richard, why bring Jerry Jam into this? He’s one of the few people in Califoria who actually speaks his mind and challenges the status quo.
You say “neither is more important than the other” and that is true. Except for one thing. The powers that be don’t agree with you. They feel that trainers are more important than bettors. Not equal, but more important. Trainers are Rock stars as one clown put it.
lastly, i agree with Triple T, if you are sick of the opinions on these forums, don’t read, we won’t lose sleep if you decide to not read and not post.
30 Sep 2010 at 06:54 am | #
Richard H,
Why don’t the Native American casinos pay their “fair share” of taxes?
It’s simple. They are getting some pay back for the fact we stole their land, deliberately spread disease among their people, and generally tried to wipe out the Indian race.
I’d call what they get today too little, too late.
30 Sep 2010 at 08:20 am | #
Nick,
Americans deliberatley spread disease among Indians? Please cite your evidence. I’ve heard of only one possible instance and that was the British during the French and Indian War.
30 Sep 2010 at 08:33 am | #
Let’s get a couple of things straight here. Race tracks turn a profit or they wouldn’t be open. That profit is decreasing becuase gamblers are finding better ways to play with their gambling dollar. But let’s look at who is making money in this industry. Of course jockeys and trainers make money. If you are not a talented jock or trainter, then you don’t make as much a Baffert or Bejarano. But you still make money. Race track workers, especially high-paid executives who for decades lived off the fat of the land when race tracks were averaging 20,000 fans on a daily basis. If you work at the track, you earn a paycheck. Now let’s look at who DOES NOT make money: The horse owners. Some get lucky and buy a horse like Zenyatta or win the Kentucky Derby, but horse owners collectively put much more money than they get back. Who else loses money: THE BETTORS! Think about this: If the first race at Arlington had a combined pool of $200,000. The average takeout on that pool is 20%, so all the bettors who wagered on the first race at Arlington just lost $40,000. That’s right, $40,000 has just been extracted from our pockets or betting vouchers. AND THAT’S JUST ONE RACE AT JUST ONE TRACK! If they held a matchrace and both horse had approximetly equal amounts bet to win, both horses would pay 3-5. That means if the win pool was $100,000, and $50,000 was bet on horse 1 and $50,000 was bet on horse two, the takeout is $20,000. So that leaves only $30,000 left to pay off the winner. So $20,000 of the $50,000 is extracted. That’s 40% of your profits going somewhere else, not in your pockets. If you look at the tote board, any horse that has 50% of the win pool in any race pays only 3-5 when the true odds are even money. I want some race track executive to come on this forum and explain: HOW DO YOU BEAT THIS GAME? And then explain how after bumping the takeout in California by 10-15%, HOW DO YOU BEAT THIS GAME? Come on, i’m waiting . . . . .
30 Sep 2010 at 09:02 am | #
I could spend the next two days responding to all the comments on this post, but will limit myself to a few minutes for now.
To Richard H - Kudos for having the intelligence to see both sides of the major issues. But, I must disagree with some of your conclusions.
Yes, racing is a symbiotic game consisting of horses, owners, gamblers, trainers, jockeys and a track. But, to exist. it does not need gamblers. The owners could put up all the purse money and every race would be a stakes race. That was how it was in the “good old days” when dukes, earls and other royalty wanted to see who had the swiftest steed. They were betting alright, but only amongst themselves via the money they put up to run.
Years later, someone (bookmakers) had the bright idea that there was money to be made by letting the commom folk bet on these affairs. After a while, there was fierce competition among the bookmakers, and customers were able to shop around for the best price. That is how a market works.
Still later, a French perfumier devised parimutuel betting, weherein the bettors themselves set the price on each animal. Initially, the takeout rate was around 10% and bookies and the parimutuel system co-existed for many years.
For the last 60-70 years or so, bookies have been barred from all US tracks and all ‘legal” wagering has been conducted through the parimutuel system.
Over time, the takeout rate has increaed to levels that make it very, very difficult to beat the game over an extended period. Richard H states “it requires both luck and skill to bet the ponies sucessfully”. In the short run, he may be right. But in the long run, he is wrong. Winning over time requires only skill along with a reaaonable, markert-driven takeout rate. Any novice can win the World Series of poker over the short run, but would you back that same novice in a series of ring games against Doyle Brunson? I hope not.
As far as racing being promoted as an entertaiment option, I have no problem with that either, as some people who come for that aspect of the game might eventually get hooked on the betting part.
However, to think that “entertainment” should be the focus of marketing efforts is quixotic. Even at destination meets like Del Mar, Saratoga, Keeneland, and Oaklawn, if there were no gambling, how much would tracks have to charge in admission for “entertainment” in order to cover purses and other expenses of putting on the show? You do the math.
So, we see that if tracks think they can make it selling the entertainment aspects of the sport, why should they care care about minor issues like takeout rates. The past performances of the “entertaiment” option are pretty ugly. Does Lori Petty and “Go Baby Go” ring a bell?
Whether amongst the rich or the downtrodden, racing will only prosper as a gambling game. It is the only major sport where the SPECTATOR CAN ALSO BE A PARTICPANT.
I spend 70-80 hours a week making numbers, betting and watching horse races. If there was no gambling, I would go to a few big races like the Derby every year, and that would be it.
So, promoting the sport as entertainmnet is one thing. But dismissing your best customers’ concerns as Mr Israel did, is downright egregious.
Now on to Mr Corrow -
It’s Cary, not Gary.
I regrettably used the words “$2 dollar bettor” when I should have used “price conscious” bettor. All the $2 bettors are just as important as the whales in reviving our great game.
Whether minnow or whale, poor liquidity affects us all. For example, on Friday, Sep 17, after Lubash won the opener at 35/1, all other grass races were taken off the turf at Belmont Park, decimating the card. I decided to take a look at Calder and saw an opportunity in the Pick-3 from races 9-11.
Look at the results and payoffs below and see if you see any aberrant payoffs.
9TH RACE
Next Post 5:07 Off: 4:41 | 5 1/2 Furlongs | 2 Year Olds | Maiden Claiming ($40,000) | Purse: $21,200
# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
5 Sweetprincesscharm Leyva J C 118 6.20 3.20 2.60
7 Summit Wind Cruz M R 118 4.00 3.00
3 Prize Informant Saez L 118 11.20
10TH RACE
Next Post 5:32 Off: 5:07 | 6 1/2 Furlongs | 3 Year Olds And Up | Allowance Optional Claiming ($16,000) | Purse: $30,500
# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
6 Put Me First Nunez E O 120 11.40 4.40 4.20
3 Landing My Way Cruz M R 118 4.80 2.60
4 Ashlee the Great Santiago Javier 120 4.60
11TH RACE
Off: 5:32 | 5 Furlongs | 3, 4 and 5 Year Olds | Maiden Claiming ($25,000) | Purse: $17,400
# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
8 Troubles Comin Garcia Jose A 118 6.40 3.00 2.60
3 Defense Mode Cruz M R 118 4.40 3.00
4 Early Christmas Jurado L 118 5.00
Times in 5ths: :224 :471 1:001
Times in 100ths: :22.83 :47.27 1:00.39
Scratched: Keep to the Code, Knowa, Mission Mike Clark, Positive Action and Sculptor
Also ran: Purple Desert, Walk the Tiger, Zip It Nance, Valid Flame, Jake Conrad S and Patient Skipper
Winning Trainer: Jackson Gary G - Owner: Jackson Gary G.
$2 Exacta (8-3) Paid $21.60
$2 Trifecta (8-3-4) Paid $101.80
$2 Daily Double (6-8) Paid $15.20 Daily Double Pool $9,534
$2 Pick 3 (5-6-8) 3 Correct Paid $157.00 Pick 3 Pool $8,475
$1 Superfecta (8-3-4-2) Paid $201.90
I cashed on the pick-3 which paid a nice premium over the parlay.
Now, Mr Corrow, and others who like the cornucopia of wagering options in every race, how would you like it if you had a $2 double linking races 10 and 11? Often, the whales (or even whale) are right, and I repeat right.
A double that should return in the neighborhood of $40 came back and paltry $15.20. How do you like your diluted pools now? And the likelihood is that the big double bet came in late, so it might have been paying $40 when YOU bet two or three minutes to post.
Let’s calculate how much was actually bet on the winning 6/8 double combo. Well, the pool was a whopping $9,534 and the take is 20%. .80 x 9534 = $7627 and $7627/$15.20 = ~500 winning two-dollar tickets. So there was about $1000 bet on the winning double.
Let’s say some big bettor wagered a $600 6/8 double as the horses were loading into the gate. Now, let’s take out his $600 bet and see what the price looks like. The pool comes down to 8934 and .80 x 8934 = 7147 and 7147/200 = $35.73 which is right around the parlay.
The irony is that many of these severe underlays are due to them being overlays right near post time. I don’t know that to be the case in this instance, but often when the value is TOO good, all the computer programs kick in late and make what looked like a good bet a poor one (even for them).
Boy, I’m glad this whale didn’t play the Pick-3.
As to stillriledup concerns about adjusting his play to the size of the pools, that won’t help much. You can adjust your bet to reflect the size of the pools, buy you can’t stop anyone else from destroying your value if he lands big time on your horses.
In short. better liquidity is good for ALL PLAYERS, big or small. If I know one thing about this game it is that money follows money (and lone speed is always dangerous). Why do you think the one-day Pick-6 carryover at Belmont is $23,000 today whereas at little old Fairplex it would be $60,000 - $70,000? The answer - players know that SoCal P-6 pools are always well funded.
To take my argument to an extreme, why not have a 10c Pick-6 starting on every race? That way you could find singles in the four-horse stakes races that management now leaves out of the regular Pick-6. On a ten-race card you could have five different 10c Pick-6s.
So, until the industry can demonstate handle growth rather than the 20% decline we have seen over the last couple of years, LESS IS NOT ONLY MORE MORE, but also a necessary survival strategy.
30 Sep 2010 at 09:03 am | #
California Horse Racing Board
1010 Hurley Way Suite 300, Sacramento, California 95825
Phone: (916) 263-6000 Fax: (916) 263-6042
Mission Statement
The purpose of the California Horse Racing Board is to regulate pari-mutuel wagering for the protection of the betting public, to promote horse racing and breeding industries, and to maximize State of California tax revenues.
In 1933, the people of the State of California adopted a constitutional amendment which created the California Horse Racing Board. The measure wrote many safeguards into the law and gave complete jurisdiction and supervision over all racing activities to the State of California acting through the Board. Pursuant to these powers, the Board passed rules establishing the authority of the stewards, but made the stewards strictly and completely responsible to the Board.
The Board, currently a seven-member commission appointed by the Governor, supervises all race meetings in the state where pari-mutuel wagering is conducted. Principal activities of the Board include: protecting the betting public; licensing of racing associations; sanctioning of rule violators who participate in horse racing; designating racing days and charity days; acting as a quasi-judicial body in matters pertaining to horse racing meets; collecting the state’s lawful share of revenue derived from horse racing meets; and enforcing laws, rules, and regulations pertaining to horse racing in California. The state’s revenue from horse racing is principally derived from fees based upon a percentage of the pari-mutuel wagering pools, breakage (the odd cents not paid to winning ticket holders), and unclaimed tickets. Additional revenue is derived from licenses issued to horse owners, trainers, jockeys, grooms and others, and from fines imposed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What happened “to regulate pari-mutuel wagering for the protection of the betting public"… I see nothing there about “Entertainment”.
When public officials,or state board members do not live up to their sworn duties, the honorable thing to do is resign.
I think they have forgotten something more…
The State Board people work for us, we do not work for them.
They need the betting public a lot more than the betting public needs them.
Move on.
Roger Way
30 Sep 2010 at 10:18 am | #
Cary, I heard you gained a few pounds at the Saratoga meet, but that is no reason for anybody to call you a whale.
Σας ευχαριστώ για τη φανταστική εξήγηση.
TTT
30 Sep 2010 at 10:28 am | #
Thanks, Teddy
Where did you find the Greek script??
30 Sep 2010 at 10:33 am | #
I cheated; http://babelfish.yahoo.com/. A translation site.
Again, thanks for taking your valuable time for such a succinct explanation of your views.
TTT
30 Sep 2010 at 11:46 am | #
Kyle,
There is documentation colonists knew Indians were susceptible to European diseases, for which they had no immunity.
After discovering this, a few (not all, or possibly even a majority) colonial leaders went out of their way to continue trading goods exposed to European diseases to the Indians.
Evidence? Read almost any of the books written by historian Allan W. Eckert, particularly his ‘The Life of Tecumseh,’ or ‘That Dark and Bloody River.’
In his Tecumseh book mentioned above, you will also learn George Washington tried to sweep the Indians from the Ohio Valley so a company of which he was a prime shareholder could claim the land and sell it for profit. In addition, you will learn Thomas Jefferson (a personal hero of mine, by the way), instructed William Henry Harrison to steer the Indians toward farming because he knew their heritage of being a hunting, warrior society, would interfere with their success, forcing the tribes to sell the land to the U.S. for pennies on the dollar.
30 Sep 2010 at 02:13 pm | #
I see you’ve dialed it back a little bit, Nick. The “we” is more generally the “evil white man,” not myself, my ancestors or my countrymen as I had conceptualized it. And deliberately spread disease is they wanted to expand trade so they may have ignored the CDC advisory.
I’ll just make two brief points. One, while the history you cite might have truth to it, revisionism usually tells us more about the time in which it was pennned than about the era it purports to chronicle. And second, to quote a turn of the century American philosopher, “If it doesn’t make sense it isn’t true.” What doesn’t make sense is that settlers would imperil their own survival by knowingly risking wiping out an important trading partner.
As for the “misdeeds “of Washington and Jefferson we will leave that for another time as that was outside my narrow objection and, as such, seems designed to obfuscate.
30 Sep 2010 at 04:37 pm | #
Kyle,
The Indians weren’t “an important trading partner” of the English settlers. Trade with the Indians was a method by which those colonists tried to keep Indians relatively quiet while they were stealing their land. The contaminated blankets and clothing cited earlier were used as a specific tool to weaken the Northeastern and upper Midwestern tribes.
Indians were “an important trading partner” for the French. The French were more interested in trade. The English settlers were more interested in land settlement and territorial expansion. There is no revisionism here. These are historical facts.
FYI: This subject is of interest because my paternal family settled in upstate NY in the 1750s. I was always fascinated by how they could have: 1) cleared forested land, 2) raised almost all their own food, and 3) fought off the Indians.
What I discovered was both sides—settlers and Indians—were remarkable people. Nevertheless, the history of the era is available for anyone to read and research.
Here is a good place for you to start:
Scalp Bounty
The Wilderness War
by Allan W. Eckert
Because of the bounties placed on scalps, the taking of people of all ages and sexes soon became something of a business on the frontier. In some cases the colonists - or, later on, the Americans - offered bounties on Indian scalps, but the greatest trafficking in scalps came as a result of the wide range of bounties placed on them by the British. Because different age and sex scalps brought different prices, the scalps had to be marked for proper payment to be given. Such bundles of scalps ordinarily were shipped in large lots of eight to twenty bundles, comprised of eighty-eight to one hundred scalps per bundle, or no less that seven hundred scalps per shipment. Scalps taken for British bounties were ordinarily shipped in these bundles to the governor of Canada in Quebec. Each scalp was stretched on a painted willow hoop and further painted on the inside of the skin. The colors and markings were used in a wide combination so that all of the necessary information about any particular scalp could be had at a glance. The basic hoop and scalp markings denoted the following:
Four-inch hoop painted black Soldier
Four-inch hoop painted red Man other than soldier
Four-inch hoop painted green Old person
Four-inch hoop painted blue Woman
Two-inch hoop painted green Boy
Two-inch hoop painted yellow Girl
Two-inch hoop painted white Infant
Skin painted red Officer
Skin painted brown Farmer killed in house
Skin painted green Farmer killed in field
Skin painted white Infant
Skin painted yellow Girl
Skin painted white with red tears Small boy
Skin half white, half red Older boy
Skin painted yellow with red tears Mothers
Hair braided Wives
Black spot in center of skin Killed by bullet
Red hoe in center of skin Farmer
Black ax in center of skin Settler
Black tomahawk in center of skin Killed by tomahawk
Black scalping knife in center of skin Killed by knife
Black war club in center of skin Beaten to death
Yellow flames in center of skin Tortured to death
Black circle all around Killed at night
White circle all around with yellow spot Killed by day
Small red foot Died fighting
The Wilderness War by Allan W. Eckert, page 450
Little, Brown & Company, Boston, 1978
30 Sep 2010 at 05:56 pm | #
I’ve only watched the major horse races on TV, with no betting, until this year. (I’m in my mid-30s.) I’m a newbie. I’ve been following it daily now--the big tracks as well as the small tracks. I’ve done okay as a bettor online, and I’m still learning, but the rake taken by the track makes an already tough game to play far harder to beat, of course. As long as it is reasonable, it is fine, and essential, to the operations of the sport. I get that.
The changes in CA make me shake my head. I love watching Zenyatta as much as anyone, but on most days I’m simply studying the non-superstar ponies in the Racing Form to attain a modest ROI. When that modest ROI becomes more difficult to achieve, due to the current changes, even newbies like me stop feeding that fire. I’m not sure if anyone cares about that, but “small people” count too, and many are the next generation of supporters of the sport.
30 Sep 2010 at 07:33 pm | #
#80 Mathew Martini…
You are not the only one shaking their head at what is happening in California.
California is out of step with the world. You have a better understandig than the regulators who are supposed to protect your interests.Have they done anything to encourage you?
New York regulators,who have been slow learners understand that you should lower the cost, not raise the cost to encourage customers and handle.
California can not decide what business they are running… they do not like to associate with gaming or gamblers.
30 Sep 2010 at 10:15 pm | #
Roger (post 80) says that Calif is out of step with the world. I couldn’t agree more.
There’s a lot more to business decisions than just dollars and cents. Goodwill is pretty important. I mean, i guess its not imperative, but its a good idea to have your customers actually like you.
California higher ups don’t seem too worried about the long term health of the sport and are more worried about any short term gains they can squeeze out of their customers pockets.
In a country where the economy is shaky at best, people aren’t interested in just handing money over to the racetracks, people are way more financially responsible than they were a few years ago during the housing boom and an economy where people ‘thought’ they had unlimited money to burn.
Horse race tracks, for the most part, have made zero attempt to ‘bond’ with their patrons. I guess this is probably because the ‘suits’ feel that they’re ‘above’ the average gambler. Horse race tracks are a store that sells bets as their main source of income, yet if you have a question about the ‘product’ there’s really no where to turn.
If you are a first time visitor and have a handful of questions about the products that your racetrack has for sale, there’s no way you can get them answered by a live person who’s at the track. Racing is one of the few businesses who has many customers who know more about their product than they do. Do you think there are a lot of people in the USA who know more about the behind-the-scenes stuff at Apple, inc. than Steven Jobs? There’s not too many, if any. This is not true in racing.
Personally, i know that i’m more likely to patronize a business where i actually like the owners, like the product and like the pricing model and feel that i’m actually wanted and liked by the people who are running the company.
But, that’s just me.
30 Sep 2010 at 11:26 pm | #
Linkback-HRI
http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2010/10/countless-comments-but-one-stuck-out.html
01 Oct 2010 at 08:58 am | #
Dear Nick:
Irrespective of whether or not there was intentional introduction of diseases, the horrific genocide perpetrated upon the native americans on this continent is sickening. Makes me realize how inconsequential our little horseracing problems really are.
Let’s somehow stop them from “scalping” us at the windows.
TTT
01 Oct 2010 at 07:33 pm | #
Cary Fotias makes more sense than all the rest put together. Also, God bless Bill for his insights and experience in exposing the knuckleheads running our beloved game.
03 Oct 2010 at 06:53 am | #
Cary Fotias is spot on with his observations regarding liquidity, too many races, too many betting pools. For background, I’m a PA player restricted to using the awful Parx ADW due to my geographical location. As one of the minnow players who have tried using his data to make value selections, it is near impossible due to odds drops that occur long after a race has started. As a $20 win bet isn’t going to give me a thrill, I’m a multi-race (P3/P4) player. I would welcome a reasonable take and increased pool sizes. In fact, if those things don’t occur, I won’t be long for playing this game. Thanks Cary for saying what needs to be said. Also thanks to Bill and HANA for also being on top of these takeout issues.
03 Oct 2010 at 08:35 am | #
Just a quick thanks to everyone who rapped in. It turned into a wide-ranging discussion, the kind that makes what I do very worthwhile.
03 Oct 2010 at 09:50 am | #
Thanks again Bill… You did your very special thing, as no one else can.
09 Oct 2010 at 08:07 am | #
I find it disheartening that CA decided to raise take-out percentages. Unlike many critics of CA racing, I’ve never had a major gripe with synthetic racing surfaces. But, I do have a serious gripe with take-out hikes. They increase the opportunity cost for playing the horses relative to other forms of gaming.
Those pushing take-out hikes are using a flawed premise. They operate under the assumption that consumers (of the horseracing product) are either unresponsive to price hikes, or the effect is trivial.
Even new or uninformed customers who are oblivious to oppressive take-out rates are affected by them. I’ll offer a personal anecodate. When I first became interested in horse racing in the 1990’s I used to bring $200 for all my bets and expenses. I frequently would leave with $120 (instead of continuing to bet) as I felt it was nearly impossible to win. Even if I hit an exacta or a couple of decent win bets it was hard to stay afloat. Instead, I would drive up the road to a local Native American casino and play the tight slot machines, where I felt like I had a legitimate chance of winning relative to the ponies.
Jeffrey
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